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General Climbing Discussion

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Should you put climbs up for others?


muki

19-Apr-2007
11:18:34 PM

Hi Kieran, The rap station is very good for a single 60m rope doubled = 30m rap, gets you to the ledge
just above the ground, (the old access gully up to tanin) and from there it's an easy downclimb of 4m on
big stone stair type blocks.
The rap will serve Dirge as well if people don't want to do the easy second pitch of that route, that could
be desirable as the second pitch means doing a long walk out or dropping ropes onto Tanin, from above
it's hard to tell if there are any leaders on Tanin at the time you drop ropes down.


monty

20-Apr-2007
7:21:04 AM

hey bomber pro i am very new to this so my views are somewhat biased towards beginners but i thank you, for with that bolt i could attempt that climb and know that if my questionable gear placement that restricts me from pushing the comfort zone blows that bolt will save my life and i wil get to go home to see my family and not die from participating in a recreational activity i am not saying there should be bolts all over the climbs but to people climbing at my level they are a godsend i always try to climb within my comfort zone but on a few occasions i have started up what looked like an easy climb ( grade 11 ) then half way up struggled to find gear placement or the only gear you can get in a tiny little nuts and at 100 plus kilos its not a very comforting thought falling onto these or having a horror show run out 7 meters above your last hopefully bomber piece any way thank you for not only thinking of people such as myself but for using your own cash to do this and i guess its a case of damned if you do damned if you dont
thanks bomber pro
warm regards simon


cruze

20-Apr-2007
8:35:27 AM

Monty, I think BP was pretty clear about the gear getting up to the bolt. Doesn't sound too inspiring for an aspiring leader. Just be aware that running headlong towards that light (bolt) at the end of the tunnel (climbing) might cause you to overlook the importance of placing good gear below it.


muki

20-Apr-2007
8:56:03 AM

Hi Andrew, the gear is OK, bomber good nuts, an exellent .75bd halfway and small nuts Like RP's Near
the top,but the climbing is easy at the thin gear and steps up a notch at the roof, and one good large wire
to get you to the bolt, but it needed the bolt because of the upward and outward forces applied to that nut
when you head out through the roof! in combination with hollow sounding rock in the jug zone (when I tap
tested it with a hammer to place the bolt!) that made me worry about crew using cams at that point,
hence the bolt, I was looking at the worst case scenario of a leader blowing a cam in the jugs pulling the
large nut cos of the angle then having nothing but the RP's to catch the resultant fall, that just wont
happen! thats worst case! but now that the bolt is there I recomend it for crew trying 18's as an
introduction to safe roof climbing at that grade, the climbing at the small gear is much easier!
Check it out Andrew you will be pleasantly surprised at how well it climbs.


Macciza

20-Apr-2007
5:56:24 PM

Hang on - where did this 'one good large wire to get you to the bolt' come from? I thought the bolt was
there because of the small RPs being last pro? Why not just put a bolt at the RPs and leave it at that?


muki

20-Apr-2007
6:53:37 PM

The large nut doesent seat that well, it is Ok if you are at it or just above it slightly Eg clipping the bolt,
but once you head out to the roof it shifts due to upward and outward pull! two forces that tend to make
nuts fall out (that is exactly what happened to this nut on my ground up run, it just fell out), plus the less
than bombproof rock at the roof itself, fine for hanging off but less than perfect for the forces exerted by
modern caming devises, hence the bolt.
I thought that it was pretty well spelled out in my previous post, but I don't mind explaining it again just
for you...Maybe I should've taped on a skyhook hey....


cruze

20-Apr-2007
7:19:03 PM

Will do, as I said in the other thread, sounds like fun. Although I must say, with all this talk about the route itmight attract a bit of a queue by the time I get there!

uwhp510

21-Apr-2007
2:50:26 AM

On 20/04/2007 bomber pro wrote:

>(that is exactly what happened to this nut on my ground
>up run, it just fell out),

Probably should have put a longer draw on it eh?


mousey

21-Apr-2007
11:01:09 AM

maybe that was his plan all along? stir come controversy and get his route repeated :D good idea...


Macciza

23-Apr-2007
10:33:25 AM

> I thought that it was pretty well spelled out in my previous post
Not really - the initial post does not mention it at all, that's why I thought it strange and why I am
commenting on it again just for you
And as pointed out a long runner would probably solve the problem - and sounds like it will be necessary
as apparently the bolt is at the lip of the roof and if you fall trying to get the plate on or clip it, it is the
same situation of alledged poor protection

Oh and if you must list the route three times on the ACA routes database - would you mind maybe
adding the other routes around there as well . . .


rodw

23-Apr-2007
10:36:52 AM

>- would you mind maybe
>adding the other routes around there as well . . .
>

Why is your typing finger broken Macca?


Macciza

23-Apr-2007
10:55:00 AM

No - Actually I only type with one when it's well protected - I use several fingers on runouts.
I just don't think I should have to sort out climb descriptions for others either.
He may not be aware that it is listed three times but surely he knows that Dirge is not listed.
Perhaps you would like to fix it up then . . .


rodw

23-Apr-2007
11:07:14 AM

No thanks my typing finger is broken.


Macciza

23-Apr-2007
11:17:47 AM

No worries mate - leave it to Bomber . . .

Bob Saki

23-Apr-2007
11:56:10 AM

have all the routes you have put up been entirely beyond reproach?


Macciza

23-Apr-2007
12:14:22 PM

Maybe not 'all' or even 'entirely' - depending on perspective . . .
But I don't put climbs up for others, I put them up for myself and others can do it my way!

Bob Saki

23-Apr-2007
12:36:57 PM

that's fair enough as in the same BP's approach is too, you've done routes for yourself and Bomber (in this instance) has considered us less skillful, (something that shouldn't be done all the time) but certainly the odd route like this gives us a chance to get brave and better our technique.


tnd

23-Apr-2007
3:22:51 PM

On 23/04/2007 Macciza wrote:
>But I don't put climbs up for others, I put them up for myself and others
>can do it my way!

Me too. I put lots of ring bolts in mine because I like to feel safe.


muki

23-Apr-2007
6:07:26 PM

On 23/04/2007 Macciza wrote:
>commenting on it again
oh again....
> a long runner would probably solve the problem
really? thats genius!!! wish I'd thought of that.
>to get the plate on or clip it
No plates its a fixed hanger,or as you might refer to them the axis of all EVIL, so easy to clip.
> alledged poor protection
gosh that sounds official "alledged".

>Oh and if you must list the route three times on the ACA routes database
My mistake, fixed now.
> would you mind maybe
Now thats better, a friendly request!
>adding the other routes around there as well . . .
I've been doing that already, and other climbs in other areas as well,


muki

23-Apr-2007
6:23:52 PM

On 23/04/2007 Bob Saki wrote:

> and Bomber (in this instance) has considered us less skillful,
>(something that shouldn't be done all the time)
Not my intension at all BS, I was merely trying to create a climb that I was willing to let anybody have
a go on (even those new to 18) and make up for the "alledged"(I love this big word, It makes what I
have to say sound important) poor pro at the roof, by putting in a fail safe anchor to protect an area of
rock that is really not good for cams, and even with a long runner, the nut below the roof would lift out
as the cam was failing, leaving nothing but RP's under the leader at that point.
I thought long and hard about the cascade affect this could lead to, and went for a single bolt to try
and correct this situation.
I never considered that any body was less skillful, It was because I wanted to make it OK for a leader
to fall at the crux, not die if they fell at the crux, thats all!

There are 145 messages in this topic.