Goto Chockstone Home

  Guide
  Gallery
  Tech Tips
  Articles
  Reviews
  Dictionary
  Links
  Forum
  Search
  About

      Sponsored By
      ROCK
   HARDWARE

  Shop

DMM: New DMM "Belay Master 2" screwgate. I-beam construction and plastic clip. (State of the Art!) N/B Only 1 left!  $25.00
28% Off

Chockstone Photography Australian Landscape Photography by Michael Boniwell
Australian Landscape Prints





Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 1 of 8. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 100 | 101 to 120 | 121 to 140 | 141 to 145
Author
Should you put climbs up for others?

Macciza
29/03/2007
12:41:28 PM
At the Festival, one of the debate questions is
"You should put up climbs so that other people can climb them, not just for yourself."
Personally I think 'bugger them - I'm doing it and I'll do it however I want' to put it in 10 words or less.
Just wondering what the 'others' might think, particularly others who put up climbs themselves.
Cheers.

Hawkman
29/03/2007
12:48:40 PM
10 words eh. thats hard.

"Rock is limited. Climbers other than yourself also exist"

anthonyk
29/03/2007
12:50:29 PM
think i heard something mike law said once about something like that in a rock magazine or crux or something, that one of the good things about climbing is the diversity of it and its not a 'monoculture', ie different people do things different ways.

goes for route setting too, some routes that get put up are bold horror shows and others won't get in the way of your manicure and clean white gucci underwear. you don't have to fit every climb to the lowest common denominator. (having said that i'd tend towards making namby pamby routes myself, but thats just cos that is what i'd be more interested/capable of putting up at the moment)

cruze
29/03/2007
12:52:15 PM
People who think they own the rock are dumb.

Macciza
29/03/2007
1:13:22 PM
Oh - it does not need to be 10 words or less - I just did not want to spell out my whole point of view.

Part of the problem is the 'should' bit - why "should" I. I put routes up for myself, then others get to climb
those routes - isn't that enough? Why should I 'have to' put climbs up specifically for others instead?

Macciza
29/03/2007
1:15:35 PM
On 29/03/2007 cruze wrote:
>People who think they own the rock are dumb.

Yeah, what makes them think they can tell me what to do with the piece of rock I'm playing on . .
bastards . . ;-}

cruze
29/03/2007
1:26:39 PM
On 29/03/2007 Macciza wrote:
>On 29/03/2007 cruze wrote:
>>People who think they own the rock are dumb.
>
>Yeah, what makes them think they can tell me what to do with the piece
>of rock I'm playing on . .
>bastards . . ;-}

Fair point. Although if you don't want others to have say in how you manage the rock then I don't think your view as the first ascentionist is any more relevant than anyone else's when it comes to retro/re bolting.
hipster
29/03/2007
1:27:34 PM
Macca,
How about keeping your opinions to yourself until the debate next weekend!!
Simey reads these threads every day...what else do you do in Nati, apart from climb, surf, skate, footy, cricket etc.. Don't give him any food for thought.
Your team-mate Ado

Hawkman
29/03/2007
1:27:45 PM
if you climb just for yourself what does it matter of someone comes back and climbs a route you have done in a different style or adds bolts for themself?

nmonteith
29/03/2007
2:09:07 PM
I think if you owned the rock you'd have the right to do things selfishly (which is what this is all about).
Most of the time the whole community owns the rock, so you should be attempting to share the route, by
establishing it in a style that at least will get some form of repeats.

People in the past did routes to suit their ascents only, usually with minimal bolts or bolts that would only
last a few years before rusting away. Its usually others that have to clean up this mess later on. Its a
very selfish attitide in my opinion.

Phil Box
29/03/2007
2:11:24 PM
So recently I put up a new 110 metre easy route as an access route on Mt. Tibrogargan. The style I put it up in was rope solo, bolting on lead in my Tevas. After chucking a few laps on on the lower pitches whilst accessing further up the route I realised that as an easy access there were some significant runouts so I ended up placing 8 extra pieces of fixed pro in the bottom 3 pitches.

Yes, I put it up in my Tevas so it can't be that hard. No, I didn't want that route to gain a reputation as a horror show. Yes, it was put up as an easy access. Yes, there are a few trad placements which I ignored and placed the fixed pro anyway. Step up to the golden staircase with only your draws. Less than 10% of the route could be climbed with trad so I simply made it all sport.

The route still has spice despite the relatively safe nature of the climbing. The runouts that were previously in it would not have been safe at all for the grade of climber that would be expected to jump on it.

I firmly believe that if you are going to put drill to rock then one should bolt according to the grade of climber that will jump on the route. Putting 1 bolt in a 50 metre easy slab route should not be allowed. Bolt it with the grade of climber in mind. There is an oldie baddie traddie round here who does exactly this yet he bolts quite close together when he is at his limit. Hypocrisy to the max.

nmonteith
29/03/2007
2:17:21 PM
i agree mostly phil, but i do think there shoudl be some sort of lowest grade cut-off point for sport style
mass bolting. leading should still be considered something that needs to be worked up to, not something
people can do on their first trip out on rock! I've seen some nasty mass bolting on super easy routes in
europe. i propose the totally made up grade of 12. :-)

I look forward to doing your new route Phil!
Onsight
29/03/2007
3:23:36 PM
>Your team-mate Ado

Hey Ado - how good is the DWS at Dunn's Swamp!

Looking forward to your trip report, why not write it up for us here?


;-)

One Day Hero
29/03/2007
6:21:45 PM
What side of the debate is Simey on???

He talks the tough guy talk, but all of his routes which I've tried have been very well protected.
One Day Hero
29/03/2007
6:35:04 PM
On 29/03/2007 nmonteith wrote:

>............Most of the time the whole community owns the rock...........

No one owns the rock Monty, we just hang out there on weekends!

>............People in the past did routes to suit their ascents only, usually with
>minimal bolts or bolts that would only
>last a few years before rusting away. Its usually others that have to
>clean up this mess later on. Its a
>very selfish attitide in my opinion.

People in the past did not have Bosch's!
I respect the amount of work that goes into finding, cleaning and leading first ascents. It's a shared responsibility to get the bolting right, don't ask one person to do it all. If a route contains rap bolts and dangerous falls, I would hope that first ascentionists would consider a bit of retroing as a compliment on the quality of their route.
Ronny
29/03/2007
6:38:04 PM
Phil and Neil,
The problem with this approach is that it assumes as 'the people that will jump on the route' people who are only comfortable at that grade when it is well protected.
That will not always be the case.

If we assume for a moment that there are some people who like climbing run out routes (I do - not always, but sometimes) then by ensuring that every route of grade x is protected for a "grade x leader" you deny to those that can physically climb harder, but enjoy the challenge of a run out route the option of doing them.

This is the reason that everyone should always put up routes in the way that they would like to climb them - that way there will be an appropriate diversity. Most routes will go up well protected, because most people like to climb them that way. But there will be some variation because there is some variation in how people who put the routes up like to climb.

Of course it may be that its entirely appropriate to ensure an access route is well protected - that's not my point. Just that things shouldn't *always* be bolted this way.

The only qualification is that if one's going to put fixed gear in it should be durable so that there won't be a need for more holes sooner than necessary.

James

nmonteith
29/03/2007
6:43:48 PM
Although usualy people who have the skills/experiance of putting in bolts will be climbing to a moderatly
hard degree, and thus a grade 15 for example would be well under their abilty. Thats mostly the reason
why there is hardly any easy sport routes, because the bolter can't be bothered as they would be able to
solo/runout the route rather than waste bolts. (my personal experience - why waste 3 hours bolting a
route that will take 2 minutes to climb, its not very good 'value for money')

dave h.
29/03/2007
6:58:36 PM
James,

without meaning to be combative.... it's not like anyone's forcing you to clip every bolt. You can run out sport routes if you so choose...

muki
29/03/2007
7:13:35 PM
Yeah james, just clip every fourth bolt!

anthonyk
29/03/2007
7:16:20 PM
On 29/03/2007 dave h. wrote:
>without meaning to be combative.... it's not like anyone's forcing you
>to clip every bolt. You can run out sport routes if you so choose...

you know thats a pretty silly argument. its a totally different line if there's bolts on it or not. yes its psychological, but thats what life is.

 Page 1 of 8. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 100 | 101 to 120 | 121 to 140 | 141 to 145
There are 145 messages in this topic.

 

Home | Guide | Gallery | Tech Tips | Articles | Reviews | Dictionary | Forum | Links | About | Search
Chockstone Photography | Landscape Photography Australia | Australian Landscape Photography

Please read the full disclaimer before using any information contained on these pages.



Australian Panoramic | Australian Coast | Australian Mountains | Australian Countryside | Australian Waterfalls | Australian Lakes | Australian Cities | Australian Macro | Australian Wildlife
Landscape Photo | Landscape Photography | Landscape Photography Australia | Fine Art Photography | Wilderness Photography | Nature Photo | Australian Landscape Photo | Stock Photography Australia | Landscape Photos | Panoramic Photos | Panoramic Photography Australia | Australian Landscape Photography | Mothers Day Gifts | Gifts for Mothers Day | Mothers Day Gift Ideas | Ideas for Mothers Day | Wedding Gift Ideas | Christmas Gift Ideas | Fathers Day Gifts | Gifts for Fathers Day | Fathers Day Gift Ideas | Ideas for Fathers Day | Landscape Prints | Landscape Poster | Limited Edition Prints | Panoramic Photo | Buy Posters | Poster Prints