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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 2 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 33
Author
Padlocked bolts – Buffalo South Gorge lookout

Eduardo Slabofvic
7/03/2007
7:17:27 PM
Thinking of all those hexagonal pillars flying through the air also bring tears to my eyes.
Duncan
7/03/2007
8:00:37 PM
On 7/03/2007 gordoste wrote:
>Fine. Just don't be surprised if people think you're an a$$hole, and start
>asking you not to climb anywhere else. The tradition of allowing others
>to use your bolts is enforced via social pressures. Commercial operators
>are not subject to these pressures as they are not part of the climbing
>community.


I think I see the problem here. You've got sense of humour set to "off". Your getting the point threshholds are set much too low as well - if you've got a flat bladed screw driver I can fix that right up.

gordoste
7/03/2007
9:35:04 PM
On 7/03/2007 Duncan wrote:
>I think I see the problem here. You've got sense of humour set to "off".
> Your getting the point threshholds are set much too low as well - if you've
>got a flat bladed screw driver I can fix that right up.

I knew he wasn't serious, but I thought he was trying to use that post to suggest that the padlocked bolt at Buffalo is wrong. I was just pointing out how the two situations are different, and why it's OK for that particular bolt to be padlocked. I couldn't be bothered writing "If, by making this ridiculous suggestion, which I am fairly certain you are not serious about, you are trying to argue that the use of padlocks is wrong no matter the situation, then here is why the situation at that particular bolt is different". Now I have had to explain it anyway so I guess I shot myself in the foot there.
chalkischeap
7/03/2007
11:08:25 PM
So Chockstone effectively gives the green light to the padlocked bolts on the following basis:

1. Dave is a good bloke, and is helpful to climbers
2. Climbers can manage without these bolts
3. The padlocks somehow stop idiotic non-climbers from doing stupid things

4. Guessing here but the padlocks may be required by Parks Victoria as a condition of the ongoing commercial operation.

Still gives me an uneasy feeling though – regulation creeping further into climbing. Our activity won’t stand up to modern (paranoid) standards of risk assessment.
kieranl
8/03/2007
8:42:31 AM
Why the sudden fuss about these padlocked bolts now? They have been in place for quite a long time, well over a decade if my memory serves me right.

nmonteith
8/03/2007
9:50:16 AM
This part of Buffalo is very much the exception to the rule regarding pristine national parks in Victoria.
The place is hugely manipulated by humans, with hang-gliding ramps, huts, lookouts, metal ralings
everywhere you look. The south gorge area is totally covered in bitumen, tennis courts and a F&*k off big
chalet with swimming pool ect. I don't think a few padlocked bolts (above an ex-rubbish dump!) are really
any different to the tonnes of other tourist infrastructre in the general facinity. Its a commercial opertaion
- just like a bungy jumping tower ect.

climbau
8/03/2007
10:39:37 AM
On 7/03/2007 chalkischeap wrote:
>So Chockstone effectively gives the green light to the padlocked bolts
>on the following basis:
>
>1. Dave is a good bloke, and is helpful to climbers
>2. Climbers can manage without these bolts
>3. The padlocks somehow stop idiotic non-climbers from doing stupid things
>
>4. Guessing here but the padlocks may be required by Parks Victoria as
>a condition of the ongoing commercial operation.
>
>Still gives me an uneasy feeling though – regulation creeping further
>into climbing. Our activity won’t stand up to modern (paranoid) standards
>of risk assessment.
>
Don't forget:
5. At a probable cost of $2000.00 to install 2(?) bolts
6. Stir up hornets nest.
7.had spare padlocks lying about.
8.Illegal to use park infrastructure for recreational climbing.
9.It gives us something else to debate (or should that be.. to bait)
10. You can still thread 6mm cord through last time I checked.
11. It is certainly not a developing issue. It has been that way for over a decade and there are no signs of this practise being abused (until now by your suggestion)
12. The locals don't mind. Nor do most other climbers, we have the rest of the mountain to play on relatively hassle free. PV Buffalo only have a few simple rules that I think we can all respect. And these rules don't really hinder your buffalo climbing experience. But ignoring them can hinder other non-climbers experience.
13. Shutting the gate after the horse has bolted serves no purpose.

It is not as cut and dry as you make it seem Chalk.
I have no problem compromising my rights to acknowledge my responsibilities.

shmalec
8/03/2007
6:26:04 PM
I saw these bolts many years ago and thought that they were padlocked to keep them available for the operator, who probably uses them a lot. They are basically right on the footpath/car park and I expect everyone strolling down there will notice them. Many clueless teenageers would be tempted to set up their own abseil after seeing the "professionals" do it.
Fair enough I say. Don't think I'd want to use them anyway. You would have to keep an eye on them to make sure some kid didn't pinch your biner as a souvenir.

andyr
8/03/2007
7:42:29 PM
this is a non issue IMO...not worth the space to continue this thread....
ZERO
31/03/2007
6:16:09 PM
I was working for Dave Chitty when he was "requested" to put the abseiling anchors in. The process was lengthy and expensive, the bolts had to be especially rated to meet PV standards.
WE thought that it was reasonable that the bolts not be subject to abuse by non fee paying climbers.
It also prevents his anchors from being used by others when he goes to use them.
Dave is a good advocate for free access and generally keeps PV on their toes with regard to dodgy freeloading tour operators.
He has helped in several rescues on Buffalo, so leave his anchors alone.

JamesMc
1/04/2007
12:40:43 PM
KayakerSteve,
As a matter of curiosity, what were the standards that PV required from the bolts, and how did they decide them.

It's interesting that they are so much smaller than the "Official" anchors that were put in by parks management at Morialta years ago

JamesMc
Paul
1/04/2007
1:00:07 PM
On 1/04/2007 JamesMc wrote:
>KayakerSteve,
> As a matter of curiosity, what were the standards
>that PV required from the bolts, and how did they decide them.
>
>It's interesting that they are so much smaller than the "Official" anchors
>that were put in by parks management at Morialta years ago
>
>JamesMc

I believe that parks said that they had to be certified by an engineer, so it is probably more the standards which the engineer used was prepaired to put their name against.
ZERO
3/04/2007
8:09:54 PM
see Paul's comment below. The bolts had to be rated to a pretty high shear strength, don't ask me what. It was about 1996 he was asked to place them.

 Page 2 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 33
There are 33 messages in this topic.

 

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