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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 3 of 6. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 100 | 101 to 110
Author
Solo Aiding a beginners intro

mousey
13/02/2007
12:24:08 PM
i find them a little unnerving to work with because it doesnt lock off as solidly (or doesnt feel like it anyway...) so it doesnt make a difference when you've got a hand on the rope, but when you're bouncing around with a camera in your hands it feels sketch

macciza
14/02/2007
9:15:03 AM
Damn,
I forgot about that one - tried it out years ago with the original (and still the best) Kong GiGi from which
the reverso etc is copied.
One of the quickest grigri retrofits I have seen was just the addition of a keyring to the swinging plate -
Inspired and quick. Mine is drilled thru the plastic where the rope comes out.
Mousey - you weren't on Zac's 'special dynamic catch non-locking grigri' were you?

dougal
14/02/2007
12:34:20 PM
Keep your knickers on Bomber. Just adding to the pool of info although I have a question - did you use a extension lead for the angle grinder on Tonsai or was it cordless? :)

dougal
14/02/2007
12:35:58 PM
I should add - thanks for the thread - very helpful.

muki
14/02/2007
1:38:55 PM
You are not adding anything to this "pool of info" the comments made by you, when not "bieng too lazy
to read the thread" are just repetitions of others who have already made good contributions to this
subject, or just inane bablings such as "making a primary anchor to a small potted plant is not advisable"
any other comments you have made seem to me to be rude (keep your knikers on) and uncalled for, as I
was not rude to you, just pointing out what you and the other person "who beat you to it yet again" said,
was infact incorrect, no power tools are necessary.
As I said ,(perhaps you will not be too lazy to read it this time) the modification takes 10 minutes with a
pocket knife!

dougal
14/02/2007
1:49:10 PM
Ok. Point taken. I'll moderate myself.
NEVERCLIMBED32
14/02/2007
1:58:21 PM
Sorry to be a pedant Bomb.
But if you are useing the chest harness to orient the grigri then you are clipped in at the waist.

As M9 has pointed out one of the things you have to watch for clipping in at the chest is getting a smack in the chops from knots biners etc. in the event of a fall.
In the event of a fall, my experience is that when you fall far enough it becomes a tumbleing fall. In my mind, while this is beyond your control. You can at least be sure that when the rope takes up (and you do get that smack in the chops) you will at least be upright (albeit with a fat lip and a few busted teeth).
This could be vitaly important should you be rendered unconscious during a fall. From what I recall reading here and there the chances of survival of anybody left inverted are less than ideal.

Any comment M9?

Thanks gsharrock for the tip re the munter. It seemed to work a treat belaying of the coffee table. I'll let you know how it goes on the big stone.

BTW Bomb....I wouldn't use the lenght of a fall that anyone has ever taken as an indication of compitence or experience.

nmonteith
Online Now
14/02/2007
2:50:44 PM
On 14/02/2007 bomber pro wrote:
>You are not adding anything to this "pool of info" the comments made by
>you, when not "bieng too lazy
>to read the thread" are just repetitions of others who have already made
>good contributions to this
>subject,

Dougals link to the reverso self-belay rig was very useful info to me.

>or just inane bablings such as "making a primary anchor to a
>small potted plant is not advisable"

Thats called humour i think

dougal
14/02/2007
4:33:34 PM
Yeah well that was the point. The thread I mean. And it was a real thread with a real potted palm in one of the shots which I thought was quite cute (whilst remaining instructive of course). Options options options.

dougal
14/02/2007
4:59:21 PM
More grist for the mill.

http://www.thebikezone.org.uk/therockzone/selfbelay.html

climbau
14/02/2007
5:06:19 PM
Dougal,
I thought the potplant link was relevant, and your comment about not anchoring off small plants was also relevant.

muki
14/02/2007
6:09:29 PM
On 14/02/2007 NEVERCLIMBED32 wrote:
>Sorry to be a pedant Bomb.
>But if you are useing the chest harness to orient the grigri then you
>are clipped in at the waist.

Correct so far.

>As M9 has pointed out one of the things you have to watch for clipping
>in at the chest is getting a smack in the chops from knots biners etc.
>in the event of a fall.

I am not clipped in at the chest, the gri gri is just oriented off the chest harness.
I am clipped in at the harness, as my post indicated in the system description.

>In the event of a fall, my experience is that when you fall far enough
>it becomes a tumbleing fall. In my mind, while this is beyond your control.
>You can at least be sure that when the rope takes up (and you do get that
>smack in the chops) you will at least be upright (albeit with a fat lip
>and a few busted teeth).

Wrong again, the chest harness does not hold you upright in a fall, just makes sure that the gri gri
stays upright, and functional, dont see how a chest harness can "smack you in the chops", its never
happened to me, in all the falls I've ever taken wearing one!

>This could be vitaly important should you be rendered unconscious during
>a fall. From what I recall reading here and there the chances of survival
>of anybody left inverted are less than ideal.

It will not matter if you are upright or not if you are unconcious, the suspension trauma will kill you any
way, solo aiding is by definition a sport that is done alone, very little to no chance of rescue.

>Any comment M9?
>
>Thanks gsharrock for the tip re the munter. It seemed to work a treat
>belaying of the coffee table. I'll let you know how it goes on the big
>stone.
>
>BTW Bomb....I wouldn't use the lenght of a fall that anyone has ever taken
>as an indication of compitence or experience.

It was never my intention to to measure my compitence in meters, just experience.
if you can understand the point notes I have made for you above,and in my introduction on this thread,
then you will have the oppertunity to go and try this system out, and get some experience of your own.

mousey
16/02/2007
8:26:44 PM
On 14/02/2007 macciza wrote:
>Mousey - you weren't on Zac's 'special dynamic catch non-locking grigri'
>were you?

not sure who's it was.was when we were at culdesac the first time, so either yours or zacs...

IdratherbeclimbingM9
15/03/2007
5:38:24 PM
On 13/02/2007 Macciza wrote:
>But please, aid grades are not open-ended. >The hard stuff gets easier and the harder stuff just gets harder.

I tend to disagree.
Undoubtedly you are climbing hard aid and I can see the reason for your thinking as based on this experience; but tell me ... , are you content to grade something harder than what has ever been done before (particularly if you put it up), as 'same old-same old' ?

>And it never seems as bad after you have done it.
This is okay as a generalised statement but is not always true, ... particularly if you fall and injure yourself on a climb.


>I think we need to regrade most of the stuff over here to reflect modern gear and attitudes. >And keep the M system - or better yet adopt the CRAP system - it is a lot more fun discussing climbs using it.

Agree about keeping the M system but tend to think that 'consensus' as is already included in the Ewbank grading systems (includes M), will account for any regrades. We just need communication between the repeat ascentionists to make it happen.
I doubt you will find significant difference in attitude amongst practioners of the harder grade black art of aid climbs. They are either full on addicted aficionados or already gone crazy peoples! Certainly 'clean aid' should be reflected in the grading system which is what I think you mean by "reflect modern gear" but this is easily incorporated in the Ewbank M system by referring to the accompanying climb description.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
15/03/2007
6:09:35 PM
NEVERCLIMBED32 wrote on 14/02/2007
>This could be vitaly important should you be rendered unconscious during a fall. >From what I recall reading here and there the chances of survival of anybody left inverted are less than ideal.

>Any comment M9?

And bomber pro replied;

>dont see how a chest harness can "smack you in the chops", its never happened to me, in all the falls I've ever taken wearing one!
(Snip)
>It will not matter if you are upright or not if you are unconcious, the suspension trauma will kill you anyway

Harness hang syndrome has been documented fairly widely in the past when climbers first cottoned on to the fact in the ‘70s. Suspension trauma (the same thing), as bomber points out is indeed fatal. As I understand it, this can be from more than one cause.

*It could be from direct constriction; … back in the old days a ‘swami seat’ constricted the diaphragm in a hanging situation, effectively causing a blackout due to lack of oxygen which spiralled into unconsciousness ~> death in an amazingly short timeframe; ... read minutes not hours.

*When ‘leg loops’ were thought of as a method of dealing with this contingency it was then found that cutting off the circulation by ‘hanging’ in a full harness could lead to thrombosis and possibly an increased toxins in the bloodstream kind of state ~ (I could be wrong about this!), which was not good for ones health when they were released after the bodyweight pressure was lifted.

I understand what bomber is saying about only using a chest harness (or similar), to orient the device which is attached to the sit-harness, … but depending upon the method of attachment to/via that chest orienting harness; and degree of free-play movement of belay device combined with the nature of the fall; it is indeed possible to ‘smack yourself in the chops’ with the belay device, or indeed the lead rope! (but not the harness). I have experienced minor (thankfully) rope-burn, and abrasion (from device), under the chin from exactly this situation. I can easily imagine a worse outcome in a very severe fall even if arrested in mid-air under an overhang.

Bomber is right about the solo aspect of the game ("little to no chance of rescue"), but disparaging remarks regarding the experience (or lack of), of others are better left unsaid imo, ... as it is a ‘Forum’ after all.

Organ Pipe
18/01/2008
3:04:51 PM
I just re read this fantastic topic posted by BP alomost a year ago, as some of us have been talking about AID allot recently.

I'd be keen to get an idea of how many Chocky members have tried roped solo aid, or roped solo lead climbing before?

Or even if you don't lead solo, for example if you sometimes hit the crag solo, with a pre placed line from top to bottom, and use a shunt or similar?

Cheers,
Ben.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
18/01/2008
3:32:23 PM
Maybe post a new post with a poll attached perhaps?


Post edit.
Link to subsequent thread started by climbau for OP

IdratherbeclimbingM9
10/07/2008
1:55:18 PM
On 1/02/2007 gsharrock wrote:
>I have used a modified gri-gri, clove-hitches, stitch-plate method, and
>silent partner.
(snip)
>Having said this I once a poor student and couldnt even aford a gri-gri.
>A chap mentioned an alternative method that only requires a stitch-plate.
>The method is summarised as follows:
>
>1. Tie a munter hitch
>2. Rather than clipping the munter hitch through your carabiner in the
>normal fashion, stuff the two loops of rope through your stitch-plate (as
>if you were clipping double ropes into the plate).
>3. Clip the loops into your harness with two opposed screwgates (or a
>mailion)
>4. Rope is feed through the system by pulling on the loop of rope that
>locks down on the stitch plate (clip a snap gate through this loop to give
>you something to pull on).
>
>All other issues such as tieing in, looping the flaked end of the rope
>into a carabiner to prevent back-feed through the system, anchors etc are
>indentical to those described comprehensively in the silent partner manual.
>Sorry my description is so poor - if you play about with it a bit you will
>soon work it out.

& NEVERCLIMBED32 wrote;
>Thanks gsharrock for the tip re the munter. >It seemed to work a treat belaying of the coffee table. >I'll let you know how it goes on the big stone.


I have given this some more thought after re-reading this thread. I may be wrong but it seems to me that the tail (locking off end), of the rope coming out of a munter-sticht-self-belay, would not necessarily be oriented correctly in many roped solo falls, to do its job correctly.

The last thing I would want to be relying on in this situation, is managing to grab it to ensure it was locked off.

Anyone have any direct experience with arresting a roped-solo-fall with this technique?

Why not simply use the sticht on its own without the Munter hitch? ... as any backup knot to prevent excessive rope feed during a fall would work with the sticht. I tend to think the munter would just snarl and complicate things during use, and not necessarily be dependable during a solo-fall.

sliamese
13/07/2008
1:17:40 PM
the ewbank M aid grading should go out the window!! its fairly universal now that is somethings M6 it means you've got crampons and tools on and are climbing icey rocks! i know its a tradition thing to keep it in use but i think we should try to fall in-line with most of the rest of the planet.

aid grades are as open/closed ended as free climbing i think. there are hypotheticals for each that i could argue either way but i think they're pretty much open. say A5 exists and is done on soething like Thaly Sagar after 20 days its realisticly harder than something like reticent wall. it may be the same difficulty technically but the location makes it a harder route to do! i do tink aid grades should be revised often, routes do get easier!

my two bobs

IdratherbeclimbingM9
13/07/2008
8:14:09 PM
On 13/07/2008 sliamese wrote:
>say A5 exists and is done on soething like Thaly Sagar after 20 days its realisticly harder than something like reticent wall. >it may be the same difficulty technically but the location makes it a harder route to do!

So what do you then grade it, given it is harder than A5, but their system is presently closed at that level?

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There are 110 messages in this topic.

 

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