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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 5 of 6. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 100 | 101 to 110
Author
Solo Aiding a beginners intro
Fish Boy
15/11/2010
3:54:25 PM
? Which one? The Reverso?

ajfclark
15/11/2010
4:17:41 PM
Yeah, the reverso/guide one in the link.

Pat
15/11/2010
6:16:50 PM
Yeah the reverso link looked interesting. Thanks for the feedback so far. I have a guide which I might try out this method with. @M9 I am interested in doing mostly solo aid and have some birthday money from the inlaws. At the moment, I am leaning towards the gri gri if I don't find the guide any good - with the use of your patented shoelace prussicks to prevent rope feed past the halfway mark it seems like a good way to get to the point of needing a silent partner.
hargs
15/11/2010
9:15:32 PM
>Anyone actually used this method?

Tested it out first in the lounge-room just like the pictures, and then at the local crag. Haven't been game enough to try on a long pitch so can't comment on rope feed problems. It's a pain getting off it once it's locked up and weighted though.
singersmith
15/11/2010
9:41:45 PM
On 14/11/2010 Fish Boy wrote:
>Gri gri's suck when you have to pull a free move or three,

Just pay out 15 or 20 feet of slack, then free climb. Who's busting free moves out of the aiders on anything they might actually fall on?

>they are junk on wet ropes and you need to be on top of back up knots/rebelay stuff etc
>to make them nice and not self feed. All pretty simple once you've got
>it sorted I suppose.

Not great on wet ropes, deadly on icy ones [/ thousand yard stare]

>You need to pay attention to the rope going over the
>brake lever, as a fall can hold it down and make you fall a long way.
>If you are going to solo a bit and want something supersafe and redundant,
>the silent partner is the only device worth having it seems. You can put
>two biners in it, has silky smooth feeding and will catch falls in any
>orientation, something a gri gri wont do.

I frown on one biner and therefore back up my grigri (unmodified) with a clove hitch on a separate biner with both belay biners clipped through both parts of the harness; never just the belay loop unless it's backed up with supertape. 20-30 feet of slack between the clove and grigri, clove usually kept rather loose so you can pull slack through in two quick motions. Without rope weight the rope pulls through nice and smooth... My high level of paranoia recently convinced me to belay my partners with a clove backup like this.

Haven't used silent partner but it looks awesome except for the weight and the possibility of having your teeth knocked out by the thing.

ajfclark
16/11/2010
6:39:29 AM
On 15/11/2010 singersmith wrote:
>Not great on wet ropes, deadly on icy ones [/ thousand yard stare]

I don't have a Silent Partner, but I'm pretty sure they shouldn't be used in freezing conditions either because the centrifugal components might freeze... I'll see if I can track the manual down or perhaps M9 could jump in?

[Edit: Here's a copy: http://www.bmi.gv.at/cms/BMI_Alpindienst/service/files/WREN_Silent_Partner.pdf

page 8:
— DO NOT USE THE SILENT PARTNER IN SUB-FREEZING
CONDITIONS. Frozen water in the clutch could prevent the Silent
Partner from locking during a fall.

— DO NOT USE THE SILENT PARTNER ON MUDDY OR ICY
ROPES. Mud or ice could interfere with the cinching of the clove
hitch, and prevent the Silent Partner from catching a fall.
]

IdratherbeclimbingM9
16/11/2010
9:46:17 AM
ajf, I read the comment;
>>Not great on wet ropes, deadly on icy ones [/ thousand yard stare]
... as applying to grigris.
?

I have hardly ever used a grigri so will take Fish Boy/singersmith word on them.

I do know that SP's still work OK in the cold, but should avoid freezing-wet conditions that are sufficiently bad to get inside their reasonably well sealed internals...

Re singersmith comment re SP's;
>except for the weight and the possibility of having your teeth knocked out by the thing.

I too was surprised at the size and weight of the device when I first got it.
To gain confidence in it I threw myself off a climb with toprope backup at varying heights/fall lengths, and found that when correctly fitted it is not a problem in that respect, ie my teeth are OK!. The few unexpected falls it has caught since, have only confirmed that impression for me.

I have become used to the weight (though if it was lighter it would be nicer!), and find the weight of carrying the rope with you far more noticable; and I might add, potentially hassley to the point that the SP really seems to disappear from your mind during real-use!
Fish Boy
16/11/2010
4:38:29 PM
Singer, I found I have had to do some mandatory free moves on some routes and was worried about the fall, so throwing in lot's of slack didn't inspire confidence. I don't free climb very well, so it's probably just a problem for me, not the likes of you!

I back the gri gri up exactly the same as you do.

Fish Boy
16/11/2010
4:40:29 PM
Pat, I'll answer for M9 (since he doesn't use a gri gri)...you will be fine with a gri gri, unmodded, for solo aid. It's what most people use, ignore all that BS that bomber pro wrote at the start...just back it up!

Pat
16/11/2010
6:11:38 PM
Thanks Fish, do you need to worry about its orientation and do you use a chest sling at all?
Fish Boy
17/11/2010
4:59:26 PM
I let it hang as it wants and do not use a chest sling. A modded gri gri goes with a chest sling to orient it, unmodded doesn't.

The gri gri will always hang upside down in this configuration, and if doing a traverse it can twist on the belay loop. Doesn't worry me...I use a steel mailion and it will never receive enough force to break and run a clove hitch back up a fair way down the line.

My rope is a 10.7 and the gri gri still self feeds higher up the pitch....

Good luck!

Miguel75
6/02/2014
1:00:06 PM
Bit of thread necromancy;

I really like this thread and the information contained therein. It's been influential in learning self belay skills, both TR and lead, and I'm pretty pumped to have finally led my first pitch of (free) roped solo the other day. I did Sweet Chariot at WG and quite enjoyed the whole experience; setting up the anchor, sorting my system, launching up into the unknown and then cleaning my own gear on abseil.

My system consists of a modded Grigri 2 and a 10.4 rope flaked into a large stuff sack which was then placed into a small, 12L snowboarding backpack. The rope flowed from the pack quite well, the small size of the pack kept it off my harness and out of the way, and I was surprised at how well the rope/grigri combo fed throughout the climb. I needed to manually pull rope through at the start of the climb but once underway it was very easy to keep momentum going and just focus on the free moves.

I'd read of others experiences with slow falls not activating the grigri cam and so tried it myself, down low on the climb, only to come to the same conclusion. The cam didn't activate until I made a 'jerky' movement and from there on I was very conscientious of tying a backup knot every so often. Another issue I had was Z clipping a piece. I'd just pulled through a few meters of rope and tied a backup knot and then clipped the wrong strand. I didn't realise it at first but did as soon as I moved upwards as the grigri locked up quick smart. The climb wasn't long enough for me to worry about the rope back-feeding but one day I may experience that too:)

It was a very liberating feeling topping out and then inspecting my gear on the way down and I'm stoked to have finally put into practice the info learnt here… Thanks to all who contributed with positive info.
brendan
7/02/2014
6:11:06 AM
So you are carrying the rope with you as you aid up a pitch Migel? Why not leave it at the anchor and let it feed from there, you already have enough weight hanging off your harness when soloing why add more!
singersmith
7/02/2014
9:01:59 AM
On 7/02/2014 brendan wrote:
>So you are carrying the rope with you as you aid up a pitch Migel? Why
>not leave it at the anchor and let it feed from there, you already have
>enough weight hanging off your harness when soloing why add more!

I've always carried the lead line at the very least (stacked, in a sling, on my haul loop). The consequences of the rope end or a loop blowing around the corner and getting stuck can be pretty extreme. You're only carrying extra weight for the first half of the pitch anyway and there's essentially no weight on the anchor side so it's really not that big of a deal. The haul line, on the other hand, I usually stack on the bags. If it gets stuck you can always take it off, leave it on a piece mid-pitch and come back for it when you get around to it.

Miguel75
7/02/2014
9:06:51 AM
Yeah I carried the rope in a little pack this time. I've solo aided a few pitches and when I left the rope on the ground I experienced the rope catching on things a few times so wanted to try the backpack method.

ajfclark
7/02/2014
9:54:26 AM
On 7/02/2014 brendan wrote:
>So you are carrying the rope with you as you aid up a pitch Migel? Why not leave it at the anchor and let it feed from there, you already have enough weight hanging off your harness when soloing why add more!

If you leave the rope and belay device at the ground, how do you manage it if it locks up/twists/etc? All the solo systems I've seen bar one you carry the rope up the pitch.

The one I mention above is in some 90s climbing film (masters of stone V maybe? Devils tower? Steph Davis?). The belay device jams and she unties and solos the rest of the pitch.

Or do you mean leave the rope flaked at the anchor? How do you untie backup knots? As you lift them up to the device? What happen when you're past half way and you have a 15m loop of rope blowing around in the wind snagging on all and sundry?
kieranl
7/02/2014
10:09:32 AM
On 7/02/2014 ajfclark wrote:
>Or do you mean leave the rope flaked at the anchor? How do you untie
>backup knots? As you lift them up to the device? What happen when you're
>past half way and you have a 15m loop of rope blowing around in the wind
>snagging on all and sundry?
I think you see your life flash past your eyes and really wish you'd remembered to charge your mobile before leaving home..

IdratherbeclimbingM9
7/02/2014
1:18:08 PM
I think a little bit of confusion entering this thread needs clarification.

The thread has moved on a bit from solo-aiding, as M75 recently gave it a mini trip report on roped-free-soloing.

Many of the techniques of each overlap, however as some have alluded too, choosing your climb for the purpose can be an important (and sometimes limiting) factor.





I like singers idea and logic, re carrying the lead rope (stacked, in a sling, on haul loop), but flaking the haul rope.

I have only ever used hanging backup loops on clean relatively vertical lines, and have otherwise carried the lead rope in a backpack or ropebag hung off harness if the line was wandery/cluttered.
I have found that even with the most careful rope management, sometimes snafus happen, ... and dealing with them is part of the game.



On 7/02/2014 ajfclark wrote:
>If you leave the rope and belay device at the ground, how do you manage
>it if it locks up/twists/etc? All the solo systems I've seen bar one you
>carry the rope up the pitch.
>
The belay device normally goes up attached to the climber in belay mode to deal with those issues.

>The one I mention above is in some 90s climbing film (masters of stone
>V maybe? Devils tower? Steph Davis?). The belay device jams and she unties
>and solos the rest of the pitch.
>
Have not seen what you refer to, however I suggest she perhaps did the only option left to her in that situation.

>Or do you mean leave the rope flaked at the anchor? How do you untie
>backup knots? As you lift them up to the device? What happen when you're
>past half way and you have a 15m loop of rope blowing around in the wind
>snagging on all and sundry?

Yes.
Here is the basic technique for illustration...
Rope is flaked and anchored at one end.
The other end is attached to your harness normally.
A belay device on harness is also attached to anchored rope near the anchor, and that side of the rope is also (as it pays through the belay device), then clipped to pro as you proceed.
The remaining tail of rope (ie almost all of the rope as you start out), usually has a backup loop/s clovehitched (or an overhand loop), clipped off to your harness to limit the fall length if the belay device doesn't work.
... Backpacks and ropebags off harnesses, are an attempt to deal with the snagging of backup loops (remaining rope-tail) issue.

As cliff posts, the dropping of the backup knots/loops as required isn't an issue on easy ground (or on most aid climbing for that matter), although I am not sure about what he means with this comment;
>Another option, is to clip the free end in the pro as you climb (unknotted of course), and this will keep long tails from flappin about.
... as I don't have a free end, unless the climb is extremely short and done on a long rope, and then there are other things to consider...

ajf also asked;
>What happen when you're past half way

It raises another issue of the remaining rope self-feeding out and wanting to create slack on the 'protection' side, regardless of remaining backup loops!
It is normally dealt with by either suspending the 'pro-side' rope weight off a piece of pro in such a manner that it won't snafu any possible fall/s, or if necessary, re-anchoring.

ajfclark
7/02/2014
1:47:00 PM
On 7/02/2014 brendan wrote:
>So you are carrying the rope with you as you aid up a pitch Migel? Why not leave it at the anchor and let it feed from there, you already have enough weight hanging off your harness when soloing why add more!

On 7/02/2014 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>The remaining tail of rope (ie almost all of the rope as you start out), usually has a backup loop/s clovehitched (or an overhand loop), clipped off to your harness to limit the fall length if the belay device doesn't work.

Brendan was asking why Miguel was carrying the rope up the pitch (as per the system you've described and I'm used to seeing), not leaving it at the anchor.

I was asking what the alternative "leaving it at the anchor" was as the only three ways I could see of doing it (with the belay device at the anchor too; with a massive loop of rope from the belay device on the climber back to the anchor and up again to the tie in point; or with the rope running from the belay device back to the ground but not back up to the tie in point) all seemed a bit odd and had the potential for the rope to snafu out of reach of the climber.
kieranl
7/02/2014
2:15:57 PM
On 7/02/2014 ajfclark wrote:
>Brendan was asking why Miguel was carrying the rope up the pitch (as per
>the system you've described and I'm used to seeing), not leaving it at
>the anchor.
>
>I was asking what the alternative "leaving it at the anchor" was as the
>only three ways I could see of doing it (with the belay device at the anchor
>too; with a massive loop of rope from the belay device on the climber back
>to the anchor and up again to the tie in point; or with the rope running
>from the belay device back to the ground but not back up to the tie in
>point) all seemed a bit odd and had the potential for the rope to snafu
>out of reach of the climber.
It's probably best to read PTPP's stuff on continuous loop solo climbing. He explains it all including the (very real) risks of the snafu you are worried about. If the potential of a major rope snag frightens you (and I think it probably should) then this technique is probably not for you.

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