Chockstone Forum

      Sponsored By
      ROCK
   HARDWARE

Chockstone Photography

Australian Landscape Prints

Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

Author

Soloing - A question of ethics?


BigMike

24-Oct-2006
2:35:15 PM

A "bomber thigh Nokia stack"?

That is legend. I'd patent it though before we read about it in "Advanced Modern Rock Climbing" by John Long.

Maybe we can outfit our cargo pants pockets with different makes of phones for different routes. Big old clunky phones for chimneys, and then them slimline ones for tight offwidths.

And those clamshell phones could be opened up, jammed into a crack and tied off. Like an old tricam!


DaCrux

24-Oct-2006
2:36:41 PM

On 24/10/2006 prb wrote:
>On 24/10/2006 DaCrux wrote:
>>I saw a pretty good climber soloing a grade 19 climb a few months ago,
>and he looked really sketchy at one point.
>
>PM me on that one if you like DaCrux, it'd be interesting...
lol :) don't worry it wasn't you prb

it was however another chockstone member, who climbs at morialta, but I won't mention any names ;)

>If you saw serious soloing more often, would you be
>more relaxed about it or would you give up climbing?!

I don't have any issues with people soloing - it just bothers me when they do it around me. It doesn’t matter if you’re roped or not but sometimes people have high gravity days - for whatever reason. At least when you’re roped you’re minimising the risks :)

kieranl

24-Oct-2006
3:28:35 PM

On 24/10/2006 mousey wrote:
> i managed to slip straight into
>a bomber thigh/nokia stack that allowed me to get almost hands free

And who did you call almost hands-free?

prb

24-Oct-2006
4:13:16 PM

On 24/10/06 DaCrux wrote:
>it was however another chockstone member, who climbs at morialta, but I won't mention any names ;)

Chockstoner, Morialta, 19, solo...hmmm...I'm guessing Boardlord on Triad, maybe Popular Misconception. 19s don't usually worry him but rumour has it he failed to deal with the old first pitch (16) of Pine Crack during Froctoberfest. Not sure what he was wearing at the time.

Triad was first climbed in the 70s by Col Reece. There's no gear and the fingery upper part is the crux. Fortunately he had a Li-Lo at home and used that as his crash pad!


DaCrux

24-Oct-2006
4:22:34 PM

Lol :) I’m not gonna incriminate anyone - it was at the Billiard Table though :)

One Day Hero

6-Nov-2006
4:35:52 PM

If people want to solo, they should.
If they want to solo above people who were there first, they should ask permission.
If they want to solo above someone to bash stuck gear with a rock, they should go f--- themselves, what a c--khead!


Paradise

7-Nov-2006
5:26:00 PM

On 24/10/2006 DaCrux wrote:
>It makes me really uncomfortable when I see people soloing – I go climbing to enjoy myself, not to see blood and cracked skulls
>
Yeah me too - I still get a bit freaked when i see people soloing, my over active imagination comes up with lots of gory potential out comes, but i guess i have to respect that it is an important part of climbing for some people with more balls than me :)

What freaks me more is seeing people who think there doing something safely and have no idea of the danger they're in, i.e. dodgy gear. What do you do then? In the past I've tried not to look and gotten out of there as soon as possible. Offering pointers on gear placement while people are half way up a route is probably only going to sketch em out more.

I would prefer not to see any more falls it f**ks with my head and stuffs up my climbing.


tnd

8-Nov-2006
10:54:56 AM

On 7/11/2006 Paradise wrote:
>...for some people with more balls than me :)

Soloing has nothing to do with "balls". You don't have to be brave to solo, you just have to have a higher propensity for risk taking.


IdratherbeclimbingM9

8-Nov-2006
12:11:13 PM

... which comes from being brave?
..., or stupid, or both?

IMO I prefer to think of it as calculated risk; as taking risk without thought to the consequences is unnecessarily scary.


tnd

8-Nov-2006
2:00:10 PM

On 8/11/2006 M9iswhereitsat wrote:
>... which comes from being brave?
>..., or stupid, or both?

The majority of people would say it comes from stupidity. I'd say neither. It's just a case of people who are driven to such a level of risk taking, calculated or not, that even a minor mistake, or inopportune event, will almost certainly kill them.

Ronny

8-Nov-2006
2:30:16 PM

This reasoning sort of bugs me. It is not solely the potential outcome that determines how 'risky' something is - but also the chance that that outcome will come about.

If I'm soloing an easy route the consequences should I fall are (almost) certain death, but the chance of falling is very, very small. So overall the chance of death is not that great.

If I'm roped climbing the chance of death if I fall is present but not great. The chance of injury in the case of a fall is greater. But the chance of a fall is very high (I fall off most times I go climbing). So once again: chance of death not that great.

So it is *not* the case that soloing is necessarily more risky. It does *not* mean that people who solo are prepared to accept more risks, which means that they are *not* necessarily brave or stupid. (of course some might be...)

There is a particular level of risk that I am prepared to accept when climbing in order to receive the percieved benefits of undertaking the activity - so on harder stuff (where I'm more likely to fall) I'll place more gear, on moderate stuff I tend to run it out more, and on solid easy routes I might solo.

Same goes for helmets.

Of course soloing with a rock in your pocket above someone else is a whole different story...


IdratherbeclimbingM9

8-Nov-2006
2:43:15 PM

Well said Ronny.
This is what I was meaning when I referred to calculated risk.


adski

8-Nov-2006
9:06:41 PM

Not to be confused with perceived risk. Good discussion.


lofty

9-Nov-2006
12:18:52 PM

watching someone solo makes me uncomfortable/nervous and ruins the experience.
when i climb a sport route it probably ruins the experience for a trad die hard.
a trad climber probably offends a soloist.

choose your own path, and let others also choose their own


PreferKnitting

15-Nov-2006
1:23:41 PM

On a soloing note. I knew a person who when just starting out in climbing found that she had a knack for soloing everytime her and her bf had an arguemnt.

She wasn't anything special seconding stuff (just like any beginner really) but when she had a spat with her bf the things she would solo! And in good form as well! No sketchiness and no death wish either. I think she was just beginning to find herself in climbing. DOn't know if she's still soloing or wht she's doing.

It was weird. I gues differnet people harness eneryg differnetly.

ON another note. I wonder if there are more guys or girls (or equal parts) dabbling in soloing?

ANyone?


dave h.

15-Nov-2006
1:55:41 PM

Apparently Karl Baba used to do something similar to PreferKnitting's friend...

http://www.yosemiteclimber.com/Washington_Column_Solo.html

(a rather disturbing trip report...good reading)


PreferKnitting

15-Nov-2006
2:15:53 PM

that is a good read. My palms were sweating just imagining his plight.

Nottobetaken

15-Nov-2006
3:18:27 PM

On 15/11/2006 PreferKnitting wrote:
>On a soloing note. I knew a person who when just starting out in climbing
>found that she had a knack for soloing everytime her and her bf had an
>arguemnt.
>
>She wasn't anything special seconding stuff (just like any beginner really)
>but when she had a spat with her bf the things she would solo! And in good
>form as well! No sketchiness and no death wish either. I think she was
>just beginning to find herself in climbing. Don't know if she's still soloing
>or wht she's doing.
>
>It was weird. I gues differnet people harness eneryg differnetly.
>
>ON another note. I wonder if there are more guys or girls (or equal parts)
>dabbling in soloing?
>
>ANyone?

I have a similar friend that is a complete novice in climbing. She's seconded up to grade 16, led 13, and soloed (quite comfortably) big airy multi-pitch 10s (like Syrinx; Arachnus; Eskimo Nell; Agamemnon etc). She absolutely loves it. Not based on any arguments with the other half (to my knowledge) as he's normally trembling up the same route - though a lot more cautiously... She comes from an acrobatic background, so heights and balance aren't an issue - which might explain things.

PS: prb - it wasn't me soloing in Morialta. Last time I played that game was back in May...

prb

15-Nov-2006
5:50:52 PM

On 15/11/2006 boardlord wrote:
>PS: prb - it wasn't me soloing in Morialta. Last time I played that game was back in May...

I was just intrigued by who would be soloing 19 in the Hills, it's not something you see everyday...

Nevertheless, I suspect DaCrux is referring to your ascent of Tilt on 15/12/05 where you, quote, "always get a bit shaky on the slab."

My most intense experience in the Billiard Table area was leading Popular Misconception. It's a route in that grey area between a lead and a solo. It'd get an "X" or close to it in the American system and I think best approached with a soloing frame of mind. But it's a lot safer lead than Hopes in Slopes!


mousey

16-Nov-2006
11:25:04 AM

out of curiousity steve- do you think that had you fallen off HiS, that a dumbell weighted skyhook would have done anything to slow you down? did you view it as protection or a psych-boost?

There are 70 messages in this topic.