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The Eternity - 17???????

Onsight

8-Jan-2006
2:31:48 PM

Looking pretty clean now... And w Friends, must be easier(?). Not that I don't want to climb it or anything...

Some interesting/quirky bits of history coming out though…

>Top roped 1st February 1965.
>(1st pitch). John Ewbank.
>First led 'On sight', John Moore, February, 1967

I wonder what the actual order of events was (re)garding the bolting. Like, did Moore place the two bolts (or someone else) after Ewbank had top-roped it? And then who later “chopped” the two bolts, Ewbank?

wombby

8-Jan-2006
11:15:37 PM

Aarrhh the murky depths of the climbing world.

This is almost as bad as the Mt. Maroon history.

Pretty gutsy solo by Adam. Did he go on to do P2? Must have to get off??


DT

9-Jan-2006
12:36:53 PM

I'm no crack climber but i had no problems with the jambs the hardeest bit was the bit where the crack runs out at the top.

18 for sure.


Phil Box

9-Jan-2006
4:25:58 PM

Being a Frog Buttress crack climber of many years myself I would suggest that the grade is closer to 17. It really is a very straight forward jamb crack. Great clean line, I just loved every bit of the jambing. More like scampering than jambing actually.

Listening in to some of the notable climbers of yesteryear who undertook pilgrameges to the mountains in days of yore. It was with great mirth that the Frog Buttress climbers would scamper up Eternity much to the chagrin of the locals who would flail on the thing.

mikl law

10-Jan-2006
7:30:29 AM

My guess is 18, 21.
I think the first pitch was only ever refered to as the Yorkshire crack very recently (mid 80's), I presume to lend some credence to P1-only ascent. At the Australian climbving meet of 1974, I was the only person who actually got up it despite solid attempts by Ian Lewis (which included some deadly accurate bong tossing by Lyle Closs when Lew ran out of gear), Humzoo and Squeek, and Veg among others.

And now it's a fine beginner's climb.

one day hero

10-Jan-2006
7:31:48 PM

On 9/01/2006 Phil Box wrote:
>Being a Frog Buttress crack climber of many years myself I would suggest
>that the grade is closer to 17. It really is a very straight forward jamb
>crack. Great clean line, I just loved every bit of the jambing. More like
>scampering than jambing actually.
>
>Listening in to some of the notable climbers of yesteryear who undertook
>pilgrameges to the mountains in days of yore. It was with great mirth that
>the Frog Buttress climbers would scamper up Eternity much to the chagrin
>of the locals who would flail on the thing.

Get yer hand off it Phil, you think we don't have a chuckle when some banana bending wannabe hardmen suffer on the "easy" roofs at Nowra.

wombby

11-Jan-2006
12:41:05 PM

"I was the only person who actually got up it despite solid attempts by Ian Lewis (which included some deadly accurate bong tossing by Lyle Closs when Lew ran out of gear), Humzoo and Squeek, and Veg among others."

Ian and Rob couldn't get up The Eternity!!?? Boy this is gonna hurt! Thanks for the ammo Mike. :-))))

madtaffy

12-Jan-2006
11:52:53 AM

I've done this route loads of times and when I did it at Xmas iI was surprised how easier it was than I ever remembered. 17 is probably a good grade for eternity 1st pitch now as the crack is so well worn and even the top 1/3rd is easy now. When you think 18 is comparable to 5.10a then giving it that is a bit over the top. It's a bloody 3 star 17 (5.9)and one of the best climbs in Oz. I live in the Blueys and reckon the Frog 18's are way harder than ours! Maybe it's the buckets of sweat running down your arms that make them hard.

mikepatt

12-Jan-2006
12:29:20 PM

Tony, don't confuse the matter with US Yosemite grades; 5.9 = 15 on the Chockstone conversion chart!

So if Eternity's 17, what's Flake Crack & Pyschopath???

Weather permitting I'll be making my own assesment tommorrow, and taking along a visiting pommie to give it the HVMVVS 4c/5a style grading.


cruze

12-Jan-2006
12:30:59 PM

At the risk of sticking my neck out, and having checked through some past posts (notably Bill Andrews verbatim quoting of the 1967 Blue Mountains guide by the man himself), does the Ewbank grading system accept that the route is being attempted onsight or with prior knowledge? If it is expected that the route is done onsight then repeating a route and consequently finding it easier is no reason to downgrade a route (or to have a lesser view of its difficulty) but then again I may be wrong. Secondly I remember leading the route quite comfortably on a set of wires and a set of hexes (which is about 8). I placed two cams (#2 in the classic hand jamming section at 1/3rd height which easily would have taken another hex in the same section) and a blindly placed 0.5 cam up in the thinner crack section (which if the light wasn't all but gone could probably been substituted by a wire - if at all above a bomber med-large wire at the start of the thin crack). I don't say this for any other reason than to highlight that modern gear hasn't necessarily altered the quality of protection on the route (as Simon was eluding to earlier - although he was only throwing it out there) - and therefore the grade.

In the end I will always hold a place in my heart for the route mainly because at the time it was my first gear 18 (or so I would like to think). There will always be climbs out there that people find easier and harder perhaps asking people who consistently lead climbs onsight around that grade near their limit would be a fairer way of determining grading.


hangdog

12-Jan-2006
1:19:56 PM

I think the first time i did The Eternity was in around 1977 and it was in better condition then of course. Although time has been kind to this route. Then the crux for most of us was the top section. The lower jamming section was straightforward for most as your climbing diet consisted of mostly crack climbing. These days most people say the jamming is the crux and the top is straight forward. Suppose the modern diet consists of walls and little edges?.
The lower crack section is smoother and the edges at the top have worn considerably over the years.
Traffic and chalk have had an impact here. Also the the chains at the top are used a lot more often as a rap station these days so you get the added effect of descending traffic.
Still a classic route though and closer to 18 than 17.

madtaffy

12-Jan-2006
2:30:41 PM

I think the first bit of jamming on Psychpath is harder than any moves on Eternity nowadays. Who cares about the grade anyway - It's a bloody classic!

mikepatt

12-Jan-2006
2:51:14 PM

Grdaes are still good for talking about online or in the pub (Imperial tomorrow Tony?)

Consider these Piddo "classics" (with original grades from Ewbank's guide)

Sincerity 14 (originally 10)
Hope 14 (originally 10 or was it 8??)
Pyschopath 17 (originally 19)
Spartan 16 (originally 18)
Cartheginian 13 (originally 15)

Obviously if the "master" got it wrong on the grades of all these climbs then nothing's written in stone..


mousey

12-Jan-2006
3:41:07 PM

>(Imperial tomorrow Tony?)
ill see ya there MP, look out for the stumbling hobbit, the giggling mouse & the urinating welshman, thatll be us...

deadpoint

12-Jan-2006
5:01:17 PM

On 12/01/2006 madtaffy wrote:
>I think the first bit of jamming on Psychpath is harder than any moves
>on Eternity nowadays. Who cares about the grade anyway - It's a bloody
>classic!

Tend to agree on this, Eternity is a pop when compared to Psychpath.


alrob

13-Jan-2006
4:22:48 AM

its a crack........botl tghe f--- out of itr! ringers all the way1


Phil Box

13-Jan-2006
8:40:35 AM

On 10/01/2006 one day hero wrote:
>On 9/01/2006 Phil Box wrote:
>>Being a Frog Buttress crack climber of many years myself I would suggest
>>that the grade is closer to 17. It really is a very straight forward
>jamb
>>crack. Great clean line, I just loved every bit of the jambing. More
>like
>>scampering than jambing actually.
>>
>>Listening in to some of the notable climbers of yesteryear who undertook
>>pilgrameges to the mountains in days of yore. It was with great mirth
>that
>>the Frog Buttress climbers would scamper up Eternity much to the chagrin
>>of the locals who would flail on the thing.
>
>Get yer hand off it Phil, you think we don't have a chuckle when some
>banana bending wannabe hardmen suffer on the "easy" roofs at Nowra.

Aint that the truth. Same goes for routes on Mt. Tibrogargan. Due to the long runouts and sometimes loose rock and difficult route finding if you aren`t used to that it can reduce one to a snivelling slob.

wombby

15-Jan-2006
12:51:51 AM

"Aint that the truth. Same goes for routes on Mt. Tibrogargan. Due to the long runouts and sometimes loose rock and difficult route finding if you aren`t used to that it can reduce one to a snivelling slob. "

Amen Phil - sounds like you've been on Clemency!


JamesMc

15-Jan-2006
11:45:02 AM

On 12/01/2006 mikepatt wrote:
>Grdaes are still good for talking about online or in the pub (Imperial
>tomorrow Tony?)
>
>Consider these Piddo "classics" (with original grades from Ewbank's guide)
>
>Sincerity 14 (originally 10)
>Hope 14 (originally 10 or was it 8??)
>Pyschopath 17 (originally 19)
>Spartan 16 (originally 18)
>Cartheginian 13 (originally 15)
>
>Obviously if the "master" got it wrong on the grades of all these climbs
>then nothing's written in stone..

Hey MikePatt,
Perhaps Ewbank didn't get it wrong on these, rather, routes themselves have changed.

As mentioned previousely, Psychopath was originally full of dirt, so it used to be harder than it is now. Ditto Carthagenian.

Also, Sincerity may have been a bit bolder in the olden days. Ewbank's guide mentions only one bolt. I think there are four now (haven't been there for years).

James Mc

mikepatt

17-Jan-2006
10:46:05 AM

On 15/01/2006 JamesMc wrote:

>
>Hey MikePatt,
> Perhaps Ewbank didn't get it wrong on these, rather,
>routes themselves have changed.
>
>As mentioned previousely, Psychopath was originally full of dirt, so it
>used to be harder than it is now. Ditto Carthagenian.
>
>Also, Sincerity may have been a bit bolder in the olden days. Ewbank's
>guide mentions only one bolt. I think there are four now (haven't been
>there for years).
>
>James Mc

Sorry James that doesn't make sense. Sincerity was graded 10 with only one bolt. Now with 3 bolts it's less bolder but considered harder at 14.
Psychopath & Catheginian are both now clean but Psychopath's gone down two grades and Cartheginian's gone up two grades..

Anyway I climbed Eternity on Friday in extreme humidity and topped out in quite heavy rain. Certain worth grade 18, and anyone who infers it's 17 has got to be either a goth fancying sheep shagger or a Queensland crack head..

There are 51 messages in this topic.