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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 1 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 24
Author
What does grade 18M1 mean
PeterM
14/12/2005
9:17:29 AM
i.e. what does "M1" mean

e.g.
at Taipan wall
The Seventh Pillar *** [18M1, 118 m]

nmonteith
14/12/2005
9:25:03 AM
M1 - stands for Mechanical (ie Aid) grade. M1 is the easiest - M10 is currently the hardest. The M
system is a unquie Australian invention which roughly translates to twice an American aid grade (ie M5 =
A2+)

Aid climbing uses the grades M0 to M10 depending on the steepness of the terrain and the reliability of
the gear placements. A climb graded M1 has frequent solid placements, but one graded M8 typically has
long sections of unreliable or body-weight-only placements. M10 is a theoretical grade in which anchors
and pro will not hold falls.

Some good links explaining aid climbing
http://www.tradgirl.com/climbing_faq/aid_climbing.htm
http://www.planetfear.com/article_detail.asp?a_id=133
psd
14/12/2005
9:44:44 AM
So does that mean that although most of the climb has been done free at grade 18 there is one part that has only been done using aid techniques?

nmonteith
14/12/2005
9:54:31 AM
On 14/12/2005 psd wrote:
>So does that mean that although most of the climb has been done free at
>grade 18 there is one part that has only been done using aid techniques?

Yes! Although this particular route can be free climbed without aid at grade 28. Most people obviously aid
a small section to make it a fun intermediate day out.

Richard
14/12/2005
1:05:31 PM
>Most people obviously aid
>a small section to make it a fun intermediate day out.

I am a tad confused by this - I thought the portion of aid need to eliminate moves harder than grade 18 would be more than "a small section". ie all of pitch 3 would need to be aided as I understand its about grade 20 (though Simon's guide suggests 28).

Prehaps someone can clarify what portion (eg %) of each pitch needs (can?) be aided to achieve a climb with free moves grade 18 or less.

nmonteith
14/12/2005
1:22:57 PM
Pitch 1 - has at least two options. Either easily free climb the first 10m (grade 16) then aid up the bolt
ladder (10m) to belay stance OR climb the flake crack on the left then do the awesome and scary un-
protected traverse to reach the belay (all free at grade 22/23ish). I think Dave Jones have a grade
28ish direct free climb version of the bolt ladder which climbs a few metres right of the ladder.

Pitch 2 - Again two options. Grade 16ish for about 7m then short aid section (3m worth) then free climb
undercling leftwards (gr22) OR the totally free direct version with some sort of dyno (gr28). You can
either belay just after the roof or link this pitch into pitch 3.

Pitch 3 - Grade 18 layback flake then crimpy single move (gr20?) to gain horizontal.

Pitch 4 - gr17 traverse

Pitch 5 - gr18 stemming corner
kieranl
14/12/2005
5:14:17 PM
Pitch two probably needs another aid or two in the roof to keep the free grade at 18. Judging by the sound of it the aid grade at that point is probably M2 these days - it used to be mostly fixed pins but those have fallen out over the years and now relies on a string of RPs in the roof. A few people take wingers here when the RPs unzip. One aid move at the end of pitch three should keep the grade of that bit to 18.

nmonteith
14/12/2005
5:17:14 PM
Hannah ripped a whole string of RPs when she led the 2nd pitch - she ended up taking a 6m fall and got
an added bonus of a lapfull of RP's attached to quickdraws. This is someone who only weighs 50 or so
kilograms... be warned heavy bastards! I woudl call that pitch at least M2. No sign of pitons these days.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
15/12/2005
3:59:08 PM
On 14/12/2005 nmonteith wrote:
>M1 - stands for Mechanical (ie Aid) grade. M1 is the easiest - M10 is currently
>the hardest.
Where is a documented (or soon to be documented) M10 in Australia?
:)

>Aid climbing uses the grades M0 to M10 depending on the steepness of the
>terrain and the reliability of (snip)

M0
?
... Not according to Mr Ewbank!

IdratherbeclimbingM9
15/12/2005
4:03:32 PM
On 14/12/2005 psd wrote:
>So does that mean that although most of the climb has been done free at
>grade 18 there is one part that has only been done using aid techniques?
As nmonteith says, yes; however ... the length of the aid section could easily be longer than the freed section, depending on the climb involved !
BA
15/12/2005
5:51:02 PM
How many times do I have to point out this stuff? From Ewbank's guide to the Blue Mountains (1967).

If a climb uses only one pitch (this is a typo, it should read piton. BA) for physical aid, the climb is graded free and the piton mentioned. If a climb uses two or any number of pitons for physical aid, but they are separated by free moves then the climb is still regarded as free with aid. For example: Pitch 3. 60’. (crux). Straight up the groove, ‘4 pitons for aid’. However if two aids are used in succession with no free climbing in between., then that particular section is regarded as mechanical. A climb, may therefore be free, aided, and mechanica1, though only the two grades are used - i.e. 18 and M.5. while the aided portion of the climb is described verbally in the description.

The easiest mechanical grade (M.1.) therefore applies to such things as two firm bolts, close together, in any easy position on good rock.

When it came to people slumping onto a piece of gear for a shake-out there was no way of indicating it in the overall grade, so M0 was added to the grades. It did not exist in the original Ewbank grades, OK?

shaggy
15/12/2005
6:22:48 PM
With all that said, grumpy, I still think that, most people, would still tag a one aid move pitch with a M1 grade, or a multi aid pitch, even seperated with free moves.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
16/12/2005
12:53:10 PM
On 15/12/2005 shaggy wrote:
>With all that said, grumpy, I still think that, most people, would still
>tag a one aid move pitch with a M1 grade, or a multi aid pitch, even seperated
>with free moves.

LOL
Yeah, I tend to agree with you shaggy (snigger)! ... & thanks BA for the re-clarification yet again! ... Richard (above) will be pleased with your response.
I am also pleased to see that nm is integrating the yank and Oz systems into a semblance of understanding for the masses.
:)
gfdonc
16/12/2005
3:50:10 PM
PeterM et al,
Went up to Staplyton on Tuesday night for a mid-week break. Over the last few days a plan slowly hatched that Seventh Pillar might be an option.
In the end we woke up on Wednesday at the campground feeling like a challenge, so dug the etriers out of the pack and went for it. About 16 hours later we got back to the car, dehy
I cannot recommend this route highly enough. Still getting over it.
Thanks to Neil for the beta and especially the new bolts! Will start a Seventh Pillar info thread when I have a few more moments to spare.
- Steve
ps there are now a few more pieces of "fixed" gear on pitch 2 Oops.
gfdonc
19/12/2005
12:52:41 PM
Just re-read the above.

As per my other thread there are several moves on wires on pitch 2 but:
- first one is a bomber large size rock
- next is #2 or #3 RP - I couldn't get this out, so there is currently a fixed wire and it's pretty bomber.
- next is something else small.
- then a small cam (0.5 Friend) is possible under the flake.

After that you can reach the flake/corner, still aid but less tricky.
No pins in sight.

If the wires stay fixed you might call it M1 but the moves are still on an overhanging wall and the sideways movement makes it harder to place and clean.

The stick clip thing is still a little bizarre .. how did they manage the FA? I was sorely tempted to leave some 7mm tat on the bolt to make the stick obsolete, but managed to resist the temptation.
- Steve

dalai
19/12/2005
12:57:42 PM
Definitely clippable sans stick. Did the route in in the french free version many years ago and we didn't use any sticks to clip the bolt.

nmonteith
19/12/2005
1:03:23 PM
Apparently if you are tall you can reach it by underclinging a hold down low. James Pfrunder couldn't do
this and he has an extra foot reach on top of me!

Miguel75
7/04/2011
2:06:27 PM
On 14/12/2005 nmonteith wrote:
>Hannah ripped a whole string of RPs when she led the 2nd pitch - she ended
>up taking a 6m fall and got
>an added bonus of a lapfull of RP's attached to quickdraws. This is someone
>who only weighs 50 or so
>kilograms... be warned heavy bastards! I woudl call that pitch at least
>M2. No sign of pitons these days.

I'm 100kg's nude!!! I'm really glad I read this post as it goes a way to calm my nerves...
bones
7/04/2011
2:13:54 PM
I think oddly enough the temperature has a lot to do with how secure the RPs are. There's some discussion somewhere on chockstone about it, but basically heat causes either the flake or the RPs to expand to the point where they get stuck. When we did Seventh Pillar, we spent hours trying to get our RPs out after the sun hit the wall and had to leave them as fixed gear. Later I heard they just fell out.

Miguel75
7/04/2011
2:23:42 PM
Thanks Bones, I read in another thread that some gear was stuck behind the flake in the arvo though fell out at night. We'll be bivying either at the top of pitch 1 or 2, the start of the crawl pitch, and will come back for any stuck gear.

 Page 1 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 24
There are 24 messages in this topic.

 

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