Chockstone Forum

      Sponsored By
      ROCK
   HARDWARE

Chockstone Photography

Australian Landscape Prints

Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

Author

near death experiences (well, falling..)


anthonyk

25-Nov-2005
11:18:15 AM

just wondering what sort of experiences people have had when something unexpected & confronting happens, like taking a big or unsettling or unexpected fall.

for myself most falls are more like ou see it coming & feel everything rush up around you and its all over, and sometimes when its unexpected its more disoriented and you only really take it in when the rope pulls you up.

has anyone had any other kinds of experiences? there's the old cliche of your life flashing before your eyes but i've never had anything like that, has anyone got anything to compare? or have you found yourself fixated on random stuff when you're going through it, like some fairly logical & maybe irrelevant?

if you want some context, some of the guys at work here decided they wanted to use me as a guinea pig in an experiment & strap an EEG on my head (one of these) & throw me off a cliff. fun guys to work with.


romfrantic

25-Nov-2005
11:27:30 AM

On 25/11/2005 anthonyk wrote:
> ...if you want some context, some of the guys at work here decided they wanted
>to use me as a guinea pig in an experiment & strap an EEG on my head (one
>of these) & throw
>me off a cliff. fun guys to work with.

he he ;-p ...so do they have a 'signature' of your experience? the guys at the brain resource were doing something similar, but looking at cognitive effects bl;ah blah which I know nothing about but very interesting nonetheless...sorry (well, sorta thankfully!) no near-death experiences from my partt that I could contribute with...


tmarsh

25-Nov-2005
11:34:44 AM

The biggest lead fall I've had - about 6-8 meters and effectively a grounder (I hit two ledges before the rope took up) - I distinctly remember thinking:

'this is going to hurt'

And I was right.

I've had bike accidents that were pretty odd - time slowing down into extreme slow-motion, then speeding up again. Dunno that I'd want to have a slow-motion groundfall though. it's best if you get over with it sooner I think.


runnit

25-Nov-2005
11:57:36 AM

I had a 10m grounder when 2 (maybe 3?) bits of gear ripped at Nowra.

I had a massive sensory overload and it didn't feel like slow motion, but I had enough time to think "this cam better catch me" pop "shit, this next bit better work" pop "nup, I'm going to die." I blacked out at this stage (still falling).

I didn't get the life flashing before my eyes thing, I just had a felling of being ripped off because there was still more things I wanted to do with life.

Turned out that I walked away (after a 5 days in hospital) with nothing permanent so I was pretty farkin lucky.

The moral, don't climb trad at sports crags.

Goodvibes

25-Nov-2005
12:06:48 PM

Exactly runnit, just what the hell were you thinking taking a rack to Nowra.

I have taken a few big whippers and jumps but nothing all that scary since they were mostly on sport routes with nice shiney ring bolts. There have been times when I was scared I was going to fall but when it came to actually falling it was all pretty calm. Nothing you can do then anyway.

Jumping can be soo much worse, so much more time to think about it but as soon as you launch off into space it just feels great.

There were maybe some times whilst surfing largish waves and getting pitched it felt like things slowed down a bit before the inevitable thrashing. Then again, that was probably more to do with the cones before hand.

Wendy

25-Nov-2005
1:11:51 PM

I fell 15m (unroped) into Serendipity canyon 8 years ago when a dirt path collapsed. My first thoughts when the rocks under me started moving were "f--- this is it then" then I tumbled into my friend Bili, thought "f--- I'm taking her with me" then I remember seeing the ferns and moss at the lip of the canyon as I flew past then blackness. I guess I became unconscious. Bili landed 1st, on her pack and was amazingly almost untouched (fractured wrist). I landed across her and faceplanted into a rock in the creek. I can't remember lots of this, but Bili tells me she dragged me out of the creek screaming and I blethered nonsense in and out of consciousness for a few hours. The first thing I remember is trying to make a sensible assessment of the situation - my leg hurt, I was cold, so I'm trying to explain I've got cramp, it must be too cold and we should back out of the canyon. Bili's trying to tell me my leg's stuffed, but I had no memory of the fall at all, til she pointed up the cliff and said "We fell down that" I looked up at it, and the first coherent thing I said, was "we're f---ed". Then there were a few more hours of agony and cold waiting for the helicopter, then when the paramedic lifted the covers over where we were hiding from the flying debris, I thought he was a spaceman! A very welcome one who gave me morphine and got us in the helicopter. I can't speak hightly enough of the careflight SCAT team. There was a storm brewing and they were just going to drop a survival kit and paramedic to us, conditions to poor to lift us out, but the pilot was ex vietnam and swore this was nothing and they were going in. It's very freaky being strapped in a stretcher getting pulled closer and closer to the helicopter blades until at the last minute you are swung in the door.

When I woke up in intensive care the next morning, I felt so aweful I would almost have preferred to be dead. I had no idea what was wrong with me, just that I'd had a huge fall, been rushed straight to emergency surgery, hurt everywhere, was connected to all sorts of blipping machines ... a few days later, I was overcome by an amazing feeling of immortality - I'd survived falling down a 15m cliff! I was desperate to get out of hospital, but it's very difficult to convince a hospital to let go of you. I only got out because a new nurse on the ward asked if I got up for a shower, I said bloody oath I did, then my dr came whilst I was out of bed and was very crotchety at me, but agreed seeing I could get around, I could go home. That night, I was out playing pool in Newtown on crutches with a cast on my hand. Still, that exsultation wore off when I got tired of the immense effort of doing anything. Carrying things. Cooking. Going up stairs. Having a shower or going to the loo. I moped on the couch eating lots of chocolate for 3 months then decided I could handle it no longer and went to the gym. Still on crutches. The gym worked, so we moved onto easy access crags, like Shipley and York. Me on crutches, Bili with a strapped wrist and Vanessa with a 3 mth old. The sense of immortality returned as a realised I could still do things, I led these people are sandwiches with one functional leg, and competed in Escalade. Another 3 months later I finally got off the crutches and not long after that the sense of immortality became one of paranoia. I was nervous about everything that could possibly go wrong. This sense hasn't ever really left. I won't ever stop doing all sorts of things people consider risky. So many people asked me how I could still climb. Mostly non climbers. But I am much more cautious than I was before. Particularly about cliff edges! Places where I would have been happy to be unroped, I rope up for now. I don't like watching other people unroped at cliff edges. I ask my climbing partners to rope up in places I am uncomfortable with them soloing. Having had a freak accident occur, I tend to hedge my bets a lot more now. Hence the vast quantities of gear I put in! It helps the rational part of me reassure the scared and panicing part of me.

So, no great insights, no life flashing before my eyes, just a blackout that is still there 8 years later. I don't think I'll ever know what might having been happening for about 13 of those 15m! But a few changing psychological reactions, from elation to depression, grief, anger, fear, determination ... Physically, it's still with me too, my R leg is shorter than my L (just what I need, even less reach), it's still smaller and weaker, my R pinch grip is weaker, I'm down a few teeth and don't quite look how I used to. my xrays are pretty speccy, metal everywhere. But I don't know what I'd do with my life if I didn't climb. Or ski. Or paddle. etc etc. So, I adapt and keep going.


manacubus

25-Nov-2005
2:31:53 PM

Lucky you didn't have a boulder land on your wrist.

Just kidding.

Good on you for sticking at it. When you're that passionate, nothing's going to stand in the way. I enjoy reading your posts Wendy, thanks.


anthonyk

25-Nov-2005
2:47:32 PM

wow quite a story. i was in that canyon on sunday so the images feel pretty real.

another person i was talking with recalled how he was in a car accident & when the car slid off the road he remembered thinking "where did all the momentum go?", and then when the car started rolling thought "ah there it is." i guess thats more of the sort of thing where time slows down & you can get this fixation on one thing.

i had a related experience when i was belaying someone at the top of the bluffs and saw someone fall on the other side of the valley. i remember my mind running over all these other possible explanations, thinking maybe someone threw a bag or jacket off or something like that & feel like i'd been justifying it to myself & weighing up that it could have been something other than someone falling, all before i heard the sound of it. not a nice situation but it was definitely a similar thing where something really confronting gave this really prominent slowing of time.

i think maybe the life flashing before your eyes thing is possibly something where you feel like its inevitable that you're going to die but you have enough clarity to face that and have some sort of perspective on what your life has been. but i dunno of course i haven't been there.


nmonteith

25-Nov-2005
3:11:26 PM

I can recount two situations of potential death falls that amazingly came out ok in the end. In both
instances I was the near observer. The first one was at Centurian Walls in the Grampians.

Adam and I went off new crag hunting. We trekked off on the far right of the cliff discovering a few
interesting slabs and faces but nothing exciting. Lured by some steep orange walls above the slabs we
decided to check them out. I chose an obvious easy corner to solo up to reach this higher ledge and
we were soon both up. I was disappointed to find that the orange roofs were in fact really small so had
no potential. We decided to downclimb what we had just come up. Adam set off swinging down on a
handing tree branch and grasping the first of the jugs at the top off the corner. I was following close
behind. As I stood waiting for him to do the first moves something bad happened. A large chunk of
rock that Adam was holding onto suddenly detached itself from the face and he was instantly without a
hand hold. The freaky bit was when Adam looked up with this startled expression into my eyes. It was
a look of total bewilderment as everything he was attached to was now flying into space. The return
look I gave him was "your dead mate". It was 10m to the rock ledge below - i knew that him falling
backwards with a large lump of rock in his hands was going to be deadly. It was like he was poised in
space for a while - time really did stand still long enough for us to exchange startled expressions and
good byes. He free fell ten metres down the cliff and crashed through the branches of a gum tree. I
looked over the edge to see his body lying in a crumpled heap at the base with leaves, rock and dirt all
over him. I screamed at Nick who was about 300m away and still on absiel to 'get the f--- down!
Adams taken a bad fall!'. I called down to Adam to see if he was conscious. He groggily answered he
felt OK. I couldn't believe it! I told him to lay still whilst I came down to check him out. The worst bit
for me was having to downclimb the piece of cliff he had just fallen off. I climbed slowly, testing every
hold on the way down. By the time I got down Adam was sitting up and feeling his body for injuries.
Amazingly, he had only sustained a few large scratches, some bruises and a slight chopped off end of
his toe. Thank god for the tree! Adam was feeling quite 'shocked' at this point so I ran over and got
some water and the first aid kit. Nick was till on abseil and didn't really know what had happened. He
had just heard lots of screaming and a big rock fall down the hill. He couldn't believe it when I told him
what had happened. He rapped down and joined me as we ran back to Adam. He had managed to get
up and walk several metres down the ledge to a nice flat rock and was lying in the sun. He said he
was feeling fine, he just needed to extract the assorted bits of tree that had got stuck into various
parts of his body. We bandaged his toe, stuck some antiseptic lotion on the cuts and walked back to
the lunch cave. That was a close call!

The other situation was KP's amazing absiel anchor fall from 10m up. Maybe he can recount that
story...

mockmockmock

25-Nov-2005
3:56:08 PM

Neil, I didn't want to ask this but.. the first aid kit I understand, the water?? cleaning wounds I hope.

Wendy and Neil both have great stories and well written. Thank you for sharing them.

I'm taking up a new sport, It seems I don't need any more frontal lobe injuries.

Ralph


gusc

25-Nov-2005
4:03:38 PM

I fell (a little way) onto a loaded snow slope in the mountains in NZ and then watched the whole thing fracture into an avalanche below me. No real time to think about anything as I fell down into it and was swept away, although I was vaguely aware of not wanting to be swept off a cliff at the bottom. Certainly nothing felt very slow-motion.

Everything finally stopped & I was buried and the snow set like stone. Thought "I'll just wiggle a finger and start to dig myself out now", but couldn't move a muscle and realised I couldn't breathe either. Then thought, "well, I'm stuffed because my climbing partner's buried now too." Tried breathing, couldn't, and waited to die. The next 3 minutes didn't seem particularly long - no life flashing before my eyes - but were probably eclipsed by panic.

Then this amazing, complete break in my life until I felt like I was drawn out of a very dark place by a tiny buzzing that ended up being my (unburied, as it turned out) climbing partner shouting at me down a snowey hole and some deep, ragged breaths and groans from me.

I think I'd probably been buried <<10 minutes but had blacked out and stopped breathing. The overnight bivvy, certain a big winter storm was coming, and 8 hours of downclimbing the next day, now scared of snow slopes, was another story...

So I experienced no lovely cliches! The weirdest thing was that total 'break' that separates the start and end of being buried. I guess that's just called being unconscious, but it certainly is weird because up until that point, I _knew_ that when I did lose consciousness I wasn't coming back, because I'd had time to contemplate & understand that my rescuer was buried too.

Going back into the mountains was a fair old mind f---. I was pretty scared on each subsequent trip but really wanted to be there at the same time. I don't mountaineer any more, but I still have a particular fear of being caught out somewhere high e.g. high on a crag with a long descent if weather is closing in or something. It's quite irrational but is slowly fading with time.


nmonteith

25-Nov-2005
4:11:20 PM

On 25/11/2005 mockmockmock wrote:
>the water?? cleaning wounds I hope.

No - Adam was thirtsy!


nmonteith

25-Nov-2005
4:13:23 PM

Freaky nightmare story Gusc. So it really does set like stone hey... how did your partner locate you?


Chalk Free

25-Nov-2005
5:11:25 PM

Had a 5 m fallat Frog Buttress and ripped out two cams. Hence I hit the ground. Thought I'm falling a long time then f--- that hurt. Crushed vertibrae and busted ankle.
Air lifted to Brisvegas where I spent two weeks in hospital where they screwed me back together.
Had 3 months off work. I had only just started there so the sickpay ran out quick. My kids were 2 and 4 and the wife wasn't working at the time. The plastic took a beating.
A few aches and pains now but generally not restricted.
Check out my story here http://www.geocities.com/maxsynnot/frog99/fr99.htm


gusc

25-Nov-2005
5:23:34 PM

On 25/11/2005 nmonteith wrote:
>Freaky nightmare story Gusc. So it really does set like stone hey... how
>did your partner locate you?

Like stone all right. It was amazing - one moment like being dumped in the surf and the next moment it sorta slowed down and condensed all around me. It was such an awful feeling, because up until then I'd thought "great, survived the fall, so now I'll just dig myself out."

My partner managed to keep his feet and apparently turned around to remark "hey, that was close!" and I wasn't there! I think he just went into automatic and did a surface search for pieces of gear that had ripped off my pack, then luckily confirmed my location with his transceiver on the 2nd or 3rd piece. It was a bloody amazing effort because I don't think he'd had heaps and heaps of practice with a transceiver.

It certainly reinforced to me the importance of just knowing what to do and being able to do it bloody quickly and efficiently.

Stupid thing was we'd started crossing the slope and backed off because it was dodgy. I then had the good fortune to slip down a slab as we traversed above the slope! 100+kg of me & pack falling onto the bloody thing was sorta like the mother of all snow-pit tests...

Wytehawk

25-Nov-2005
8:09:33 PM

On 25/11/2005 nmonteith wrote:
>On 25/11/2005 mockmockmock wrote:
>>the water?? cleaning wounds I hope.
>
>No - Adam was thirtsy!

Neil - I am not a paramedic, but as a professional firefighter I have recieved some 1st aid training. One of the things we are taught is that if someone is looking like they are going into shock (pale, clammy skin, nausea and *thirst*), then one of the *worst* things to do is to give them water.

Shock is a medical condition that can really only be managed by a doctor. When someone who is in shock is given a drink, the blood vessels in the stomach and intestines dilate to allow for better absorption of the liquid. The unfortunate and dangerous result of this for a shock patient is that it increases the volume of the circulatory system and very quickly drops their blood pressure to dangerously low levels.

If someone is in shock and asking for a drink - only allow them to moisten their lips. Don't allow them to eat or drink.

I realise that in your case everything turned out OK but for everybody's future reference, don't give a patient any fluids immediately after any accident. (Sorry if this sounds a bit preachy)


wombly

25-Nov-2005
9:16:01 PM

I was out on the turps one evening at uni with a pete, and we were steadily working our way back home, becoming less drunk and closer to home with every attempt. Hence, by the time we reached the block of flats on the corner of our street we had pretty much sobered up (and hence can't really blame the beer on subsequent events).

we'd had a pretty good run on some dodgy ground at the uni over the past few months and I had reached the stage where I though i'd had enough. However, I think both me and pete had eyed off a particular line of features for a while - a series of bricks jutting out about 1cm from the rest, going the full way up the double story wall to the roof. So as we jumped on it I was thinking to myself that this was the last time. At the base the holds felt positive - there was enough poking out that you could get you finger tips into the hole down the middle of the brick, but as i climbed higher i realised that the holds were becoming smaller and i couldn't reverse the moves. I was way higher than i wanted to jump, so there was only one way to go. Things got a little spicer as i slapped for the summit jug, which was a rusty piece of tin and none to frictional, but fear took me over the top with a mantle - only just in time to see a hand slap for the roof on the identical line on the other side of the gable. I can still see pete's hand slip off the tin and the sickening thud as he hit the dirt about 8m below.

After a few groans and four letter words from pete i figured he was still alive, but needed some assistance. I still don't know how i did the reverse mantle/roof move down over an eave and onto the 2nd floor balcony, but i was feeling pretty sheepish by the time i helped pete hobble the 50 m back home. After a coulpe of hours of lying in bed the adrenalin must have worn out as pete decided that we should probably take him to the hospital a km or so down the road - only i didn't want to risk driving past a booze bus so he wanted me to push him there in a shopping trolley! we ended up taking the more sensible option of waking up one of our housemates.

The aftermath of the adventure was a couple of fractured vertebrae which pete still has trouble with. I haven't done any serious buildering since.

gfdonc

26-Nov-2005
12:08:56 PM

A long time ago I was climbing at Hanging Rock (learned colleagues will pinpoint the date based on this info), pushing middle grades. Neither of us owned a car so we took the train to Woodend then paid the local taxi driver to ferry us out to the Rock and camped.

Spent a full day tackling the classics in the 9-16 level then thought we'd give some gr 14/15 a try at the end of the day (Mistake 1). We had some trouble aligning the route description with the base of the climb, but decided this was it and I led off. (Mistake 2)

Unfortunately it was still hot and my belayer wanted to stand well back under the shade of a tree (Mistake 3). I climbed up, placed a few bits of gear that were only "OK", (Mistake 4) then tried to work out a way up the steeper and blank looking headwall which looked much harder than the alleged grade (Mistake 5).

After hanging around for a while then deciding to "go for it" I came off. (I assume to this day there is still a new route there, as we subsequently agreed the route description was in error). Unfortunately with two bits of gear popping and the large amount of rope out from my belayer's remote location, I decked.

The next thing I remember Graham was attempting to load up the remaining gear and pack up before helping me hobble back to the main car park. I had (apparently) landed on my feet but then collected a tree stump with my head. Fortunately I was wearing a helmet, but the impact knocked me out and gave me a severe cut above the right eye, plus a gash in my palm (13 stitches overall).

In fading light he managed to find the last daytripper leaving the carpark and begged a lift to Kyneton hospital. By the time we got there and the surgeon arrived and patched me up it was 11pm so we ended up on beds in casualty for the night.

What's more, I have the photos to prove it ..

That's a much younger, longer-haired 'me' being picked up the next day, with the offending 'pro' displayed. It took me several days to see out of that eye, and looked much worse 2 days later when it was several shades of purple.

Pretty lucky really. Hope my lesson helps others.

mockmockmock

26-Nov-2005
2:53:39 PM

And THERE my friend is the first mention of Helmet. Now where did that poll go?

LOL

Ralph

prb

26-Nov-2005
11:35:22 PM

I've had perhaps three 4-5m lead falls which come to mind: 1. From near the top of Downwind of Angels at Moonarie. There's something scary about falling very far down The Great Wall. 2. Attempting the FA of Moonquake at Moonlight Buttress near Moonarie. My belayer had given me plenty of slack. Stopped just short of some nasty sharp boulders. 3. Leading on a Soloist at Les Dentelles de Montmirail in France. Got off route and took a rare whipper on the device in front of an appreciative local audience. These falls were over and done with before I could contemplate much at all.

I had one fall during which, I presume, my life and whatever was flashing in front of my eyes. Trouble is, it was a lights-out fall and I have amnesia starting from perhaps a minute before the event. That's interesting - maybe it takes about that long for the brain to biochemically encode a memory. I unbalanced myself on Missing Link when testing a placement (according to my belayer Luke). Dumb mistake. I was looking at the climb the other week, and worked out where I came off. Should have been lower and to the R for a good placement. Ouch, a 10m grounder down Ali's. I was thinking of getting back on ML, but we'd just climbed Hawk, Scorpion Direct and Quo Vadis ( and Blockbuster as a bonus when Michael's hat blew off and had to be rescued) that morning, so refreshment at The Pines was the first priority.

The legacy of that one is a permanently touchy rib cage and a stiffish R wrist. Technical mantels and banging in snow stakes are now more difficult. But like Wendy and others above, had to get back out there. It's not just what we do, it's a big part of who we are.

There are 32 messages in this topic.