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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

Poll Option Votes Graph
Yes I use chalk 126
82% 
No I don't use chalk 28
18% 

 Page 7 of 12. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 100 | 101 to 120 | 121 to 140 | 141 to 160 | 161 to 180 | 181 to 200 | 201 to 220 | 221 to 227
Author
To Chalk or not to Chalk

anthonyk
7/04/2005
12:40:21 AM
On 6/04/2005 dalai wrote:
>As to the impact of chalk and the environment. Boot rubber and human oils
>are doing the damage to rock, chalk is merely an aesthetics issue.

its still a far cry from the age old outdoor adage of take only .. leave only .. etc. go out bushwalking with someone and they'll often pack out their orange peels and cringe at picking a flower. take them to a crag and they'll rip out the foliage, drill bolts all through it, rub chalk everywhere and scratch letters in the base of the cliff.

have to admit there's a bit of a difference in attitudes there, climbers aren't exactly the most considerate outdoor citizens a lot of the time. but yeah i use chalk too and find it pretty useful, be nice to cut back the evidence that you've been somewhere a bit tho'.
shepp
7/04/2005
12:36:35 PM
I have to say that i think it also depends on where you climb. For instance if you climb on any of the granite around vic, you most often can't see any chalk marks where you have just climbed even if you used a lot of chalk. I think that it is really only a problem in areas where there is a lot of traffic on the rock.

LittleMac
9/04/2005
6:35:00 PM
One gets the feeling that this poll has become fairly conclusive with the current results indicating that 81% of climbers use chalk outdoors.

It is encouraging to see however that a large number of people do indicate that they try to minimise the amount of chalk that they use.

anthonyk
9/04/2005
9:23:13 PM
On 9/04/2005 LittleMac wrote:
>It is encouraging to see however that a large number of people do indicate
>that they try to minimise the amount of chalk that they use.

although froim my experience in general i don't think chalk care is much on peoples minds when they're out climbing. i think you victorians are a lot more PC than us northerners, at sport crags & bouldering areas its more like dig in and go nuts.. people clean up after themselves to get more friction for the tick the next time not because of any ecological consideration, but thats just the perception i get.

but good to see the issues getting raised.

LittleMac
11/04/2005
9:32:15 AM
Hey guys just wanted to clarify a few things after doing a little bit of research etc.

On 4/04/2005 Rocky wrote:
>>It is worth noting that Tannin has been a climb since Apr 76
>
>thats true and the old timers that put up all the old classics before
>chalk was introduced should be applauded for doing so A) without cams,
>etc and B) without chalk congrats to the old timers that forged the rock
>climbing industry by their skill and lack of fear!!!!

In terms of the classic lines being put up without the aid of chalk, chalk first arrived in Australia in the early seventies (1974 Chris Dewhirst) and became popular very shortly after. Climbs such as Tannin were put up with the aid of chalk.

Technology:

Shoe technology was on the improve through the seventies and eighties and was a vast improvement on the sandshoes and walking boots used by those fo the sixties.

Protection had already made massive improvemnts bu this stage (nuts were already in common use) and RP's were released in 1975/76 and cams were to follow in 1978.

Henry Barber:

It is a popular misconception that the great "Hot" Henry didn't use chalk. Whilst he didn't use much in the way of protection (ie Thunder Crack) he did use a significant amount of chalk during his ascents.

Overall my point is, that to say that all of the classic lines were established without the aid of chalk is ludicrous, yes many of the easier lines were indeed done without chalk but the majority of the harder classics (not all) above about grade 17 were done in era when chalk was at least being used quite extensively. It is also I think fair to add that many of the lines were being done with points of aid or rests etc and as has been commented on by many guidebook authors were being established by somewhat dubious means (rap inspection, rap placed protection etc).

Cheers everyone,

Hope this is food for thought.

LittleMac



itchyfingers
12/04/2005
3:57:29 PM
i would like to make an announcement, although i am sure i will never be seen again, so goodbye all. (i'll be killed for those of you who didn't realise that). the unthinkable has happened. steph, used chalk seconding a 21 in werribee gorge. (i think i hear her sneaking up behind me now...) that's right, steph chalked up. and she took the bag up, even though she didn't PLAN on using it. she did say that she would let you know when we bagged her on the day, but she hasn't so i thought it my civic duty to let you know.

well now that i've signed a death warrant, i'll go run and hide...

LittleMac
12/04/2005
4:42:55 PM
Well well well, the worm has turned!!!!! What does sabu have to say about all this according to his previous posts this a criminal offence.

Used chalk, and not even on lead. Welcome to the dark side (or should I say the white). Surely you can no longer climb with your group, but fear not there is now a wider community of climbers availanle to you (approximately 80%).

Top job itchy, good on you for coming forward, if you want we'll enter you into the chalk witness protection program.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not jumping to steph's defence but given that she hasn't signed on since 7/04/05 I feel that she should be given a chance to come forward and confess all. In the absence of a current spiritual leader within the forum (until a new pope is elected), I suggest that all confessions should be heard by his holiness the Dalai Lama (Martin Lama) in an open letter of confession. Suitable pennance will of course be forthcoming.

Kind Regards,

LittleMac
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
kieranl
12/04/2005
10:49:09 PM
On 6/04/2005 nmonteith wrote:
>My advice - don't EVER joke with a airport security officer about ANYTHING.
>Your one joke could get the entire airport shut down lickity split.

I concur - Having had my chalkbag removed by customs for checking I would not recommend the experience - particularly at the end of a 36 hour trip from Europe. Now I always wash a chalkbag if I am going to take it on an international flight.

steph
13/04/2005
6:05:18 PM
On 12/04/2005 LittleMac wrote:
>Well well well, the worm has turned!!!!! What does sabu have to say about
>all this according to his previous posts this a criminal offence.
>
>Used chalk, and not even on lead. Welcome to the dark side (or should
>I say the white). Surely you can no longer climb with your group, but fear
>not there is now a wider community of climbers availanle to you (approximately
>80%).
>
>Top job itchy, good on you for coming forward, if you want we'll enter
>you into the chalk witness protection program.
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>------------------------------------
>I'm not jumping to steph's defence but given that she hasn't signed on
>since 7/04/05 I feel that she should be given a chance to come forward
>and confess all. In the absence of a current spiritual leader within the
>forum (until a new pope is elected), I suggest that all confessions should
>be heard by his holiness the Dalai Lama (Martin Lama) in an open letter
>of confession. Suitable pennance will of course be forthcoming.
>
>Kind Regards,
>
>LittleMac
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-------------------------------------
Yeah sorry guys I havent been on for ages - some of us have a life.
Yes I admit I used chalk (thanks itchyfingers) and am not proud of it. In my defence it was only in sheer desparation and the chalk bag came off after that dreaded climb! I still stick to my arguement and have found a substitute for chalk - i now use dirt, my chalk bag has become my 'dirt bag' and i won't be caught red-handed (or white-handed) any time in the near future. I also might point out that I wasn't excessively chalking up before even touching the rock and I only used it to pull through two moves. I know it was all in my head cos I didn't fancy 2nd that 21 as my first climb and warm-up on a 34degree day. I'm sure i could have gone without and will in future. At least I'm making an effort and i might also add that sabu lead the same climb as a warm-up without chalk so i take my hat off to him and so should all u chalk-abusing bums...
James
13/04/2005
7:22:16 PM
dirt in your chalk bag!!?? the old guard spent countless hours brushing dirt OFF the rock....

sabu
13/04/2005
9:45:02 PM
lol interesting few posts.... ok well yes i did climb the 21(French Revolution, Werribee Gorge) (not on first go) without chalk as warm up (not really i was just told that was the only free one at the time so i did it!). *sigh* Steph did use chalk, no i don't hate because of it, no i will not conduct any sort of punishment, and yes it was criminal but no doubt not to the extent that some of u are guilty of. In terms of chalk use, she did not cake her hands in it, she did not tick the hold needed to get, and she did feel guilty about it, SO from those terms i can forgive and forget next time hide the bag! would anyone else like to come forward and humble themselves and admit their guiltiness? During the course of the day, before i started on a climb i brushed my hands in dirt to rid excess moisture, i then procceded up the climb as one would, seeing as most of the climbs were easy trad i felt no need for the use of chalk. On some harder stuff, my hands did sweat, and no i did not give in. instead i continued climbing until i fell (Snatch & Grab) 21. my conclusion (im sure ur all dying to hear) dirt is fine as a moisture absorbant and one can find it on ledges or other spots as the climb procceds.

rodw
13/04/2005
11:32:04 PM
On 13/04/2005 sabu wrote:
> In terms of chalk use, she did not
>cake her hands in it, she did not tick the hold needed to get, and she
>did feel guilty about it,

re steph To compare quotes to a former world leader,


I did not have sexual relations with that woman

or

I did smoke but didnt inhale

hmm lets just move that line in the sand a little bit shall we????

Welcome to the dark side steph...just one more hit honestly...never again...except this time...but that dosnt count:)...never trust a junkie
Goodvibes
14/04/2005
7:55:54 AM
Ha ha, nice one Rod.

climbau
14/04/2005
9:46:29 AM
Steph, with your new chalk habit comes the responsibility of a new set of excuses(see appropriate thread), use them well young chalk abuser! And may the force(/chalk) be with you.

nmonteith
14/04/2005
10:29:04 AM
On 13/04/2005 sabu wrote:
>On some harder stuff,
>my hands did sweat, and no i did not give in. instead i continued climbing
>until i fell (Snatch & Grab) 21. my conclusion (im sure ur all dying to
>hear) dirt is fine as a moisture absorbant and one can find it on ledges
>or other spots as the climb procceds.

Did you fall off because you were sweating too much?

nmonteith
14/04/2005
10:44:06 AM
I kept up my attempts at chalk minimization on the weekend. I managed chalk free ascents of a few sub 19 buffalo routes. I did however take one of the scariest falls off my life due to not having enough chalk on a hideous grade 21 Buffalo sloper fest! The route was Goat Island on Isotope Wall. The bolts on this are very very dodgy - 5/16th bent down rusty shit boxes. There was no way I would ever want to fall on one these bolts. Anyway - here I am traversing to the right on the route with only two of these bolts between me and the ground 12m below. As I committed to a dicy sloper on a vertical wall i felt my hands start to spoodge off. I quickly chalked up one hand - but the other hand was slipping then. I looked down at the bolt at my feet. It angled down at about 30 degrees and stuck out of the rock alarmingly. I focused back on the moves ahead - now my feet were starting to slide down as well. I desperately fumbled for the remnants of chalk but got almost nothing in return. Ok - I was starting to get very scared now. I tried to reverse the moves to get below the mangled bolt. I wasn't even sure the hanger would stay on the bolt as it seemed giant compared to the shrivelled appearance of the bolt. I started whimpering and tried again to reverse the moves. My hands were sodden, sweat was now pouring from my brow. Suddenly, without warning I was airbourne. I had no time to think things through, i shut my eyes and waited for the sound of a bolt breaking - then my bones braking. It all happened so quickly I realized that the bolt had actually held me. I was staring at its hideous protrusion in front of my eyes. I had survived!! This seemed to defy all logic - how could something so tiny hold a fall like that. I quickly changed plan and climbed the route via the direct grade 17 finish. There was a good chance that bolt could have pulled, and the one below that had no chance of holding a 6m fall. In that situation chalk was a safety necessity - not a luxury.

neats
14/04/2005
10:52:25 AM
Neilo, you forgot the bit 'Fark, Fark, Fark'... and lots a little wimpering sounds!! Oops you included that :-)

They were really dodgy looking bolts, the belay bolts on one of the abseils were rusted but ok for the moment.





kieranl
14/04/2005
10:58:43 AM
Neil, here's Wills description of Goat Island from his web page. He makes it sound much more friendly. Your description more fits my memories of it.

* Goat Island 45m 19
Excellent steep face climbing up a funky dyke system, offering well protected moves between good positive holds - a nice change from smearing!! Not 21 though! Start at R end of elevated ledge. Reachy moves up slightly hollow flakes (take a small sling for the first, and small cams for the second), to 1st BB. More easily past med. cam to 2nd BB, then lovely crux moves L and up over bulge to jugs. Sling a bollard out L, then follow easy slabby dyke system up and L for 25m past occasional small wires/RPs. A damn good climb

neats
14/04/2005
11:04:44 AM
The start to the 17 and 19 are the same me thinks. Lots of smearing was involved at the start, there was only 1 really positive jug hold...

nmonteith
14/04/2005
11:09:30 AM
On 14/04/2005 kieranl wrote:
>Neil, here's Wills description of Goat Island from his web page. He makes
>it sound much more friendly. Your description more fits my memories of
>it.

Yes Kieren, I was lured by Wills description. Upon further investigation (asking Will) i found out that he had mistakingly done the grade 17 direct finish rather than the grade 21 right hand version! His excuse was he didn't have the guide with him!! Will Monks - you better update your site before someone else takes the dreaded whipper.

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There are 227 messages in this topic.

 

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