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General Climbing Discussion

Author

Photography & Copyright

Rocky

24-May-2005
5:07:35 PM

Hey there, whats the go with people saving pics off websites such as Onsight and Chockstone and using them for personal use like putting them on your PC and using them as desktops, but not distributing them or trying to make any profit from them by selling them????

Onsight

24-May-2005
6:03:12 PM

Well... as far as onsight.com.au is concerned... On their homepage it states "All Photos are copyright © Simon Carter / Onsight Photography: ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. None of the images may be reproduced or used in any way without prior written permission from Onsight Photography." This of course includes use as your PC desktop. Therefore any such use without prior written permission is completely illegal…. Oh… I have just been informed that Onsight Photography have declared an AMNESTY from persecution for any such uses. So to all of you who have ever used a picture from onsight.com.au for your desktop or whatever, apparently all you have to do to avoid prosecution from Onsight Photography’s team of ferocious lawyers is send a cheque for $100 to them before Friday THIS WEEK. That’s $100 for each photo you’ve ever down loaded.

We thank you for your business!

No. Not really!!! It’s a joke. (Derrrr!).

Seriously now, if it's personal non-commercial use like this, and you’re not republishing it like you say, then go for it! I'd rather not be bothered by those requests. Enjoy. I've just been writing to someone about an illegal use of one of my photos in a large ad in a US magazine. That's the kind of use that shits me.

BTW, I've just added a "freebies" page to my web site, and when I get time over the next few weeks (read months) I intend to add some larger images for desktops and also maybe a free screensaver program…


cheesehead

24-May-2005
10:08:34 PM

I'll second that.

For my part (being less reliant on photography income, mind you), I'm happy give images to friends for private use (especially models. Goes without saying really) - though I'm still small enough that being asked permission is nice. When people expect that courtesy to extend to their commercial benefit (flyers, website, etc), it becomes a different story.

gfdonc

22-Aug-2005
11:58:39 AM

(bump).

I was just was sent an email that contained this, haven't read it but no doubt will have some relevance:

Victoria is leading a national working party looking at the issue of the unauthorised online publishing of "illicit" photographs on the Internet. The Working Party has published a discussion paper that proposes measures that attempt to deal with, for example, the publishing of photos of schoolchildren at sporting events. New criminal offences are one option, as are non-legislative options such as an education campaign.
More info:
http://www.ag.gov.au/agd/WWW/rwpattach.nsf/VAP/(CFD7369FCAE9B8F32F341DBE097801FF)~8+AugInternetPhotosFinalPaperAugust05.pdf/$file/8+AugInternetPhotosFinalPaperAugust05.pdf

Nico

22-Aug-2005
2:56:03 PM

Great thread, important issues!

As a gnarly trad climber I can say that numbers of (trad) climbers, actually climbing on rock, have gone down over the past decade - though it's snowing here this morning so it will be a month or two before I can take another sample out on the granite slabs ...

Copyright and all that: I'm not a photographer, but a freelance writer / cartoonist / broadcaster, and face the same problems. Enthusiastic amateurs are so happy to get their voice on radio, or their name in print, that they will do it for nothing. This makes it extra difficult for those of us who are trying to make a living.

I sometimes give courses in 'science communication' to postgrad students who want to make it into the field of science journalism. I tell them: don't under-sell yourself, ever! Anyone who tells you that media exposure is its own reward is having a bite of you. Politely request a fair price for your work, then we'll all get a fair price in the future.

If you don't know what to ask, find someone who is in the trade, and and ask them what the going rate is. Or look at the Media Alliance (previously AJA) National Freelance Rates. You probably won't get anything like the AJA rates, but its a starting point for negotiation. In 2002 - the last time I printed off the schedule - they suggested $679 for 1000 words, and 68c per word thereafter. A photographer should get $169 per hour. Or $606 for a magazine cover. $150 for a b/w cartoon. And so on.

These figures are out-of-date, mainstream, and inflated, but they are better than being in the dark.


cheesehead

22-Aug-2005
6:13:04 PM

>These figures are out-of-date, mainstream, and inflated...
...and dont sound a whole lot like what Rock offer :)

Cheers Nico. Where's the best places to access Media Alliance recommendations?

Onsight

23-Aug-2005
6:40:00 PM

On 22/08/2005 Nico wrote:
>I tell them:
>don't under-sell yourself, ever! Anyone who tells you that media exposure
>is its own reward is having a bite of you. Politely request a fair price
>for your work, then we'll all get a fair price in the future.
Too right Nico. Good stuff. This is a big problem with climbing photography in this country.

>Or $606
>for a magazine cover.
Depends on circulation of course.

Not sure if I’ve mentioned this before, but for anyone interested in learning more about photography business practices specifically relating to outdoor photography, then check out this US based photographers group - TOPA. www.t-o-p-a.com There are some good resources there and an active forum where business practices and rates are discussed — also which clients to watch out for because they have bad business practices! It’s not an open forum — but I’d be happy to vouch for any photographers I know.


cheesehead

23-Aug-2005
10:07:41 PM

I'll second that. TOPA and it's moderator Harrison are really valuable


mousey

18-Apr-2006
5:53:36 PM

I'll third that!

There are 49 messages in this topic.