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General Climbing Discussion

 Page 3 of 3. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 58
Letīs Harden UP!!!!!!!!!!!

9:52:08 AM
not entirely true IMO- by all this 'soft' crap surrouding the climb it does taintt the feeling someone would most likely get from getting to the top. also i see the claims, fror the same reasons pointed out prev., as insulting to HB/serpentine (how can you call it soft when you haent climbed it in the style it was graded for. that goes back to the 'your grading systems f---ed' thread)
the other thing i wanted point out in reference to mattos is that if you get on a climb thats at or above your limit, if it IS soft for the grade dont you feel cheated when you do get up it? especially if it was you first climb at the grade
10:44:47 AM
how can you assume that chris didnt climb the route in the style that HB did?
and how can you say seriously that he can never.
i know and have heard of a number of people who have climbed serpintine ground up.
and i know for sure of 1 onsight ground up AND placing all gear on lead.
he did infact say that it would be no more than a grade 7c(27) in france,where he has lived for
about 12 years.
either way you look at it, its still a pretty good route,but maybe not as good as snake flake.
its only a grade.dont be to sentimental about it.

10:55:03 AM
Good point MM, I am a climber of what could best be described as "of mediocre ability" so I should make it known that my opinion on any climb above about 17/18 (lofty for me) is probably doesn't hold a great deal of credibility compared to a lot of local hardmen (or hardpersons in the non-gender-specific age). I usually stand at the base of most cliffs in awe of some of the achievements of Australia's good climbers....yes I am one of those guys who wanders up to rock well above my capability and awkwardly crank the first move off the deck and laugh at my own pitiful attempt.

To answer your question I guess I do feel a bit cheated when I get up a climb cleanly that should be around my max limit but on the flipside, when I'm half way up a climb supposedly in my "comfort zone" and it is super hard for the grade I think I have a similar feeling....

I've only seen serpentine from across the valley, it looks ace regardless of the grade.

11:28:41 AM
To the person who asked wether "Chris Sharma" a.k.a. Mr Ben Cossey has ever climbed Serpentine or wether he ever could, i am quite positive he could climb it , he may well have already. I do concede that wether he could climb it in HB's original style is debatable but im pretty sure he could climb it ground up gear pre placed.

1:41:23 PM
Kenny, who was it who made the onsight of Serpentine?

5:46:03 PM
Since we're splitting hairs, it was a flash acent, but on pre-placed gear. Jerry Moffat, if memory serves
me. As far as I am aware, a ground-up onsight of the top pitch has yet to be done.

Which is kinda significant. If the route is as easy as our anonymous friend says it is, why hasn't it seen a
true onsight. Other routes of that or similar grade have been onsighted, haven't they? Or is the crux
putting the natural gear in?


5:51:54 PM
Any assent on preplaced gear is a red-point
5:54:35 PM
If it's climbed first shot on preplaced gear, it's a flash not a redpoint.

10:13:15 PM
The flash ascent is mentioned in the guidebook. I think Kenny was referring to a ground-up onsight.
11:35:25 PM
i thought that was a pink point, climbing on pre-placed draws?

1. climb with clipping pre-placed gear & draws ; or
2. climb with clipping draws on, on the way up; or
3. climb with putting gear in on way up, then putting draws on.

3 has to be harder than 1

ah forget it, i think this ones been done to death
12:08:15 PM
Jerry's ascent was more of beta flash by all accounts. Pre placed gear, with Andy Pollit, his belayer, screaming beta up to him on where to go and which holds to use etc...

8:47:21 PM
I have tried serpentine once. Putting the gear in as i went. Sat three times. I don't see the deal with placing the gear. I only had to place two cams and one wire up high. There is now two fixed wires however. A total of five peices All easy to put in. And before you start preaching about a route maybe you should go try it first. There is two bolts right near adequete natural placements. It's not as pure as you would believe. f---ing brilliant regardless.

5:14:01 PM
>i know and have heard of a number of people who have climbed serpintine ground up. and i know for sure of 1 onsight ground up AND placing all gear on lead.

Err, don't think so.

5:41:04 PM
I recieved an email on the 3rd November...

"This weekend some Portuguese guy onsighted Serpentine, ground up,
placing gear on lead, saying afterwards "eh, no big deal". When he was asked
which route at Muline was better, Eye of the Tiger or Demon Flower, his reply
was "One is....crimpy, the other is know, resistance. They are

Prob a troll i imagine...

6:33:52 PM
On 14/12/2004 nmonteith wrote:
>Prob a troll i imagine...

That's what I thought when I read that (because of the way it was written - and lack of info - particularly the guys name). However I've since heard that there is a really strong Portuguese guy around, and I later heard (independently) that he'd done Serpentine first shot, ground up. Awesome job!

Would be worth knowing if the fixed wires that Robbo refers to (which were also in it late last year) were still in it before calling it an onsight though. Because as Dan and Martin pointed out:
On 5/10/2004 dan wrote:
>Any assent on preplaced gear is a red-point
Which is kinda right except...
On 5/10/2004 dalai wrote:
>If it's climbed first shot on preplaced gear, it's a flash not a redpoint.
And in that case it's not an onsight (not on a mixed gear route like this anyway).

On 5/10/2004 tmarsh wrote:
>Or is the crux putting the natural gear in?
Well, the hardest gear to place is certainly the wires and I reckon it would - or could - make a big difference, particularly if climbing ground up. Not surprised by what Robbo was saying really (hanging on gear obviously makes a big difference too).

7:38:24 PM
On 2/10/2004 Rock Weasel wrote:
>For some people (particularly from NSW) it seems that climbing is about
>bulging muscles, hard redpoints and big, impressive numbers. I know that
>this way of doing things means something and that it may even be popular.

Mon ami Bourge et moi est alpinistes d'extreme. Nous est tres funky!
Les 'Style' superb est imperitiv!!

>But I think that its popularity is diminishing...
Haha, welcome to the finge society of social deviatism, where dispopularity reigns: Dirtbag climbers.

On a (VERY) tangent, It's well worth reading Marc Twight's and Jon Krakauer's observations of the French and foreigners in "Chamonix", a tale from Krakauer's book "Eiger Dreams". Stereotypes do suck, but these guys present a tres drole perspective.

I don't have a lot to contribute RE Serpentine, but respect is due to earnest hardmen like HB for their achievements. Respect is also due lads like Matto, Frilly Pants and I when we cry at a grade 19 crux (dubious point...).
Is there really anything wrong with acknowledging say a lower grade for preplacements (ie, almost a sport climb) alongside a true grade?
8:19:52 PM
On 14/12/2004 cheesehead wrote:
>Is there really anything wrong with acknowledging say a lower grade for
>preplacements (ie, almost a sport climb) alongside a true grade?
I think that's a reasonable solution myself but can understand why some might have a problem with it. Actually I thought that is what had been happening with Serpentine for years (sport red-points (formally known as pink-points) = 29, whereas ground-up, no placing gear from the dog, and gear-in-in-a-day = 31). Simple.

Fact is, few bother to strip the gear between shots on routes like this and most seem happy with climbing it in sport style anyway (the fixed wires really should come out however Ė if they havenít already). But at the same time you canít down-grade HB's 31 when it hasn't being climbed in his style. Different grades (in this case) is acknowledgement of the different difficulties of the different styles.

9:04:47 PM
the 'discussion' about moving bolt positions when rebolting awhile back had arguments saying something like 'the climbing is about the moves, not making the clips'
in reference to sport climbing i do agree with that, but i think trad is generally accepted as a somehow more 'complete' me at least, it is not just about the moves and as such the style of ascent is very valid in determining the difficulty... dont kid youself into thinking 'its ONLY grade 2(x)'...what you really mean is 'the way i climbed it felt like 2(x), but unless i have done it in the original style the route was graded to then i'm not qualified to downgrade etc'

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There are 58 messages in this topic.


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