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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 4 of 11. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 100 | 101 to 120 | 121 to 140 | 141 to 160 | 161 to 180 | 181 to 200 | 201 to 205
Author
Grampians Access 2019
armstp
6-Mar-2019
4:30:46 PM
I guess I was hoping that some member of the climbing working party might know what was going on and let us know.

Surely PV wouldnít spring something as outrageous as closing rather more than half the cliffs in the Grampians without discussing it with the climbing representatives first, so that they had plenty of time to communicate the specific closures to the climbing community. [Iím not sure whether I am being facetious or not]




Rawpowa!
6-Mar-2019
5:14:14 PM
On 6-Mar-2019 armstp wrote:
>I guess I was hoping that some member of the climbing working party might
>know what was going on and let us know.
>
>Surely PV wouldnít spring something as outrageous as closing rather more
>than half the cliffs in the Grampians without discussing it with the climbing
>representatives first, so that they had plenty of time to communicate the
>specific closures to the climbing community. [Iím not sure whether I am
>being facetious or not]
>
>
>
>
>
Apparently PV have decided to close half the Grampians without any consultation. They really need to be specific and say exactly which crags are closed otherwise there will be a whole bunch of oblivious climbers climbing and then PV will complain about it. I hope people respect the bans but really what crags have they closed exactly? People are resorting to superimposing maps over the Crag to have a guess, Parks Victoria need to communicate with the VCC or whoever so that both parties can have an idea of what is actually off limits. No doubt there are some sensitive discussions going on but in the meantime Parks Victoria need to be specific, otherwise as far as I'm concerned they have no right to turn around at a later date and complain about climbers ignoring the ban. You'd hope that they have put some planning into this, given we've known this was coming for months, and the whole situation shows the utter incompetence of Parks Victoria. They need to get their shit together and actually communicate their message.

Simon Talbot said he'd get all the "geocodes" out there for the banned areas in his interview with ABC radio, where are they?

Duang Daunk
6-Mar-2019
5:56:12 PM
On 6-Mar-2019 Rawpowa! wrote:
>Apparently PV have decided to close half the Grampians without any consultation.
>They really need to be specific and say exactly which crags are closed
>otherwise there will be a whole bunch of oblivious climbers climbing and
>then PV will complain about it. I hope people respect the bans but really
>what crags have they closed exactly? People are resorting to superimposing
>maps over the Crag to have a guess, Parks Victoria need to communicate
>with the VCC or whoever so that both parties can have an idea of what is
>actually off limits. No doubt there are some sensitive discussions going
>on but in the meantime Parks Victoria need to be specific, otherwise as
>far as I'm concerned they have no right to turn around at a later date
>and complain about climbers ignoring the ban. You'd hope that they have
>put some planning into this, given we've known this was coming for months,
>and the whole situation shows the utter incompetence of Parks Victoria.
>They need to get their shit together and actually communicate their message.
>
>Simon Talbot said he'd get all the "geocodes" out there for the banned
>areas in his interview with ABC radio, where are they?

Welcome to the real world bro.

Ongoing dealing with this situation imposed on us by the f---wits that precipitated this PV reaction is what really gets up my nose.
If I canít go legitimately climbing in areas that were legit before as a result of their stupidity, then it makes me feel like chopping some of their still currently legit routes elsewhere to let them know how Iím feeling...

The sheep out there who condoned the original stupid bolting by their not calling it out are headed for a shearing in the future too.
Rawpowa!
6-Mar-2019
6:22:18 PM
On 6-Mar-2019 Duang Daunk wrote:
>On 6-Mar-2019 Rawpowa! wrote:
>>Apparently PV have decided to close half the Grampians without any consultation.
>>They really need to be specific and say exactly which crags are closed
>>otherwise there will be a whole bunch of oblivious climbers climbing
>and
>>then PV will complain about it. I hope people respect the bans but really
>>what crags have they closed exactly? People are resorting to superimposing
>>maps over the Crag to have a guess, Parks Victoria need to communicate
>>with the VCC or whoever so that both parties can have an idea of what
>is
>>actually off limits. No doubt there are some sensitive discussions going
>>on but in the meantime Parks Victoria need to be specific, otherwise
>as
>>far as I'm concerned they have no right to turn around at a later date
>>and complain about climbers ignoring the ban. You'd hope that they have
>>put some planning into this, given we've known this was coming for months,
>>and the whole situation shows the utter incompetence of Parks Victoria.
>>They need to get their shit together and actually communicate their message.
>>
>>Simon Talbot said he'd get all the "geocodes" out there for the banned
>>areas in his interview with ABC radio, where are they?
>
>Welcome to the real world bro.
>
>Ongoing dealing with this situation imposed on us by the f---wits that
>precipitated this PV reaction is what really gets up my nose.
>If I canít go legitimately climbing in areas that were legit before as
>a result of their stupidity, then it makes me feel like chopping some of
>their still currently legit routes elsewhere to let them know how Iím feeling...
>
>The sheep out there who condoned the original stupid bolting by their
>not calling it out are headed for a shearing in the future too.

So we have a fund raising fight night in the not too distant future? You vs. The Bloke At Black Ian's? I don't know a lot of the climbing seems to be mostly trad climbing and minimal impact e.g. Eureka. I really doubt that this is a well thought out approach by Parks Victoria. There doesn't seem to be a lot of logic behind the bans.
Stugang
6-Mar-2019
6:30:17 PM
At least the bank ceoís said ďsorryĒ.

What has black Ianís dude said?
Rawpowa!
7-Mar-2019
8:26:27 AM
On 6-Mar-2019 Stugang wrote:
>At least the bank ceoís said ďsorryĒ.
>
>What has black Ianís dude said?

I don't know who he is, I assume he's young and stupid though?
Stugang
7-Mar-2019
8:40:05 AM
Thatís ageist and I take offence. Old people can be stupid too

gordoste
7-Mar-2019
8:59:24 AM
You hit the nail on the head DuangDuank.

When this all started, and there was a suggestion of a voluntary moratorium on new routes, but before Parks took direct action, I happened to visit Araps and this was a hot topic. I personally heard several well-known and active climbers directing much more anger towards the people trying to protect our access, rather than those endangering it. I hope they've come to their senses now.

Climbers don't like to call each other out on bad behaviour - we're supposed stick it to authority, not BE authority.
thisrod
7-Mar-2019
1:54:23 PM
> If I canít go legitimately climbing in areas that were legit before as a result of their stupidity, then it makes me feel like chopping some of their still currently legit routes elsewhere to let them know how Iím feeling...

Wow.

What's that thing they say in the Police force? Oh right, I remember: thank goodness that crooks are stupid.
armstp
7-Mar-2019
2:42:17 PM
I had a chat with a Ranger at Hollow Mt car park today. She informed us that Summerday Valley and Hollow Mt are closed to climbing as of Wednesday last week. They are still open for licensed operators guiding and running outdoor ed. Interestingly there are no signs up to this effect, and the PV notice board telling visitors all about the good climbing at Summerday Valley and Hollow Mountain still greets you at the start of the walking track into the cliffs.

The bottom line according to her is that all of the areas marked as Protected on the map that PV have issued are closed to climbing. Which is an awful lot of the Grampians.
Rawpowa!
7-Mar-2019
3:16:59 PM
On 7-Mar-2019 armstp wrote:
>I had a chat with a Ranger at Hollow Mt car park today. She informed us
>that Summerday Valley and Hollow Mt are closed to climbing as of Wednesday
>last week. They are still open for licensed operators guiding and running
>outdoor ed. Interestingly there are no signs up to this effect, and the
>PV notice board telling visitors all about the good climbing at Summerday
>Valley and Hollow Mountain still greets you at the start of the walking
>track into the cliffs.
>
>The bottom line according to her is that all of the areas marked as Protected
>on the map that PV have issued are closed to climbing. Which is an awful
>lot of the Grampians.
>

So guided climbing and outdoor ed is ok but climbers who don't pay up can't? This is crazy, just goes to show this has nothing to do with aboriginal heritage.
Stugang
7-Mar-2019
3:56:35 PM
Itís a long stretch to conclude this shows it has nothing to do with aboriginal heritage.

Itís complicated but I think it is more a reflection of how our relationship with parks has deteriorated. We canít be managed or trusted and bring in stuff all $.

Those groups can be managed are trusted and bring in $.






Tori_GMAC
7-Mar-2019
4:16:31 PM
I am trying to post in this forum, but every time I do I get the message : Invalid or Suspicious Input Detected. Press BACK on your browser.

I've tried editing my post; but I get the same response every time. Is there a keyword that causes this error message . . . or certain characters? There are no profanities in my post, I need to know the offending word/s that are blocking my post???

If a more experienced user of the forum can please message me or help, it would be appreciated; I would like to contribute some recent information on the issue of Grampians climbing access.
Rawpowa!
7-Mar-2019
4:28:43 PM
On 7-Mar-2019 Stugang wrote:
>Itís a long stretch to conclude this shows it has nothing to do with aboriginal
>heritage.
>
>Itís complicated but I think it is more a reflection of how our relationship
>with parks has deteriorated. We canít be managed or trusted and bring in
>stuff all $.
>
>Those groups can be managed are trusted and bring in $.
>\
Look I agree there are aboriginal heritage issues in some areas and it's clearly a complicated situation, but I just feel that PV are more interested in increasing the Visitor Economy above all other considerations. I've always felt that people should be able to enjoy the parks for free as long as they have minimal impact. I'm sure you could say we don't have minimal impact, but it just seems PV will ignore that as long as you spend enough money. They seem to be totally out of touch with my ideas of what National Parks are for. Don't forget this is the same organisation that came up with the idea of charging $36 a night for a camping spot with a pit toilet.
jacksonclimbs
7-Mar-2019
4:41:05 PM
Simon Talbot - PV COO worked for Coles and the Farmers Federation most recently.

He has a background in Mining and Paper Production.

Goshen
7-Mar-2019
5:58:06 PM
Tori... This has been an issue before; but yes there's some word or some combination of words (think coding kind of words, not just profanities) that are not allowed.

Email it to me if you like and I could also try and post; would be interested to hear.
Dave J
7-Mar-2019
6:13:40 PM
On 7-Mar-2019 Tori_GMAC wrote:
>I am trying to post in this forum, but every time I do I get the message
>: Invalid or Suspicious Input Detected. Press BACK on your browser.
>
>I've tried editing my post; but I get the same response every time. Is
>there a keyword that causes this error message . . . or certain characters?
>There are no profanities in my post, I need to know the offending word/s
>that are blocking my post???
>
It might be the links or the emoticons.

Was this what you were going to post?

"I have just had a chat with a ranger (a friend who will remain nameless) about the access issues that climbers are dealing with I specifically asked for clarification on the new SPA's and how they will affect climbers, and climbing tour operation...


The ranger indicated to me that all areas listed in the most recent update are indeed off limits to all recreational climbers; and that even Licenced Tour Operators (such as myself) might be in a legal grey-area accessing Summerday Valley..."
part 2 coming For further clarification on my access rights I am being referred to a higher up E x e c u t i v e within the organisation I hope to have a constructive conversation with this person tomorrow.

I told the ranger that my livelihood - and the livelihood of many local operators and instructors - depends on our ability to work in Summerday Valley (and other areas). I said that I felt the bans were rushed policy and that they have been poorly communicated to the broader climbing community. I said that I would fight these bans, and that I'll have to be physically stopped by 'compliance officers' from operating in an area that I pay a significant sum of money to PV and other bodies (insurance) to access. OK OK my blood was up a little; (I didn't expect the February SPA update to escalate to official PV policy so quickly) but my ranger friend agreed with me, and said we (the climbing community) should fight the bans, lest climbing in the entire Grampians be prohibited.

Immediately after this call I spoke with the local member (Emma Kealy), who has been doing some background work on the climbing access issue. She has had meetings with Aboriginal Victoria and local indigenous groups. The state of affairs isn't entirely as it would seem from various Parks Victoria media releases. Emma hopes to raise the issue of access on the floor of the Victorian Parliament tomorrow, to get a better idea of how this policy has been formed, and why it is being pushed so strongly (and in such an opaque manner) by Parks Victoria.

I'll add more when I know more."
Tori_GMAC
7-Mar-2019
6:18:06 PM
Dave, I took the emoticon out, as well as the link - and still had the issue. I was using parenthesis and square brackets in the post, maybe this upset the server. . . hmmm.

Anyway, yes repost at your leisure.
Dave J
7-Mar-2019
6:21:54 PM
So it seems the bad word was " e x e c u t i v e"
f_abe
7-Mar-2019
6:34:42 PM
ďWe donít necessarily need more visitations, we need better quality experiences ... Itís not a good experience if youíre looking for a beautiful nature escape and you canít get accommodation or you have to have a five-hour trip back to Melbourne,íí Mr Talbot said.

And there I was thinking a day at the Gallery or Millenium and a night around a fire at Buandik was as good as it gets.
Shows what an idiot I was and how I've wasted so much of my life.
I have complete faith in the touchy feely do gooder approach.
This madness will end, common sense will prevail, and all user groups will be able to experience the magic of Grampians in whatever manner they see fit while respecting all other user groups.

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There are 205 messages in this topic.

 

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