Goto Chockstone Home

  Guide
  Gallery
  Tech Tips
  Articles
  Reviews
  Dictionary
  Links
  Forum
  Search
  About

      Sponsored By
      ROCK
   HARDWARE

  Shop
Chockstone Photography
Australian Landscape Photography by Michael Boniwell
Australian Landscape Prints





Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 1 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 33
Author
Bolt Removal
Bolt Fairy
22-May-2018
6:54:46 PM
Hello Chockstone.

Long time lurker, first time poster. I climb, and I climb a lot.

I have removed the retro-bolts on "Dr Paul and the Amazing Dancing Gnome" and fixed all relevant holes. The retro to this climb would was and still is disappointing to the FA team.

I will only be writing in this thread when I remove hardware and will not be answering any private messages and/or replies to this thread.

I generally don't care for incessant banter on Chockstone, and will be removing retro-bolts as I find them.

I bid you adieu.

E. Wells
22-May-2018
7:37:27 PM
Is this Sacha Baron Cohen ?
brent
23-May-2018
9:51:58 AM
Good. I'm glad someone removed that pointless bolt right next to a bomber cam slot.
Wendy
24-May-2018
6:04:28 AM
On 22-May-2018 Bolt Fairy wrote:
>Hello Chockstone.
>
>Long time lurker, first time poster. I climb, and I climb a lot.
>
>I have removed the retro-bolts on "Dr Paul and the Amazing Dancing Gnome"
>and fixed all relevant holes. The retro to this climb would was and still
>is disappointing to the FA team.
>
>I will only be writing in this thread when I remove hardware and will
>not be answering any private messages and/or replies to this thread.
>
>I generally don't care for incessant banter on Chockstone, and will be
>removing retro-bolts as I find them.
>
>I bid you adieu.

Another fine example of the things that happen when rampant bolt choppers fail to use their words. A little look on thecrag would show that those bolts were in the route One Day Hero. If you thought that they retroed Dr Paul and the Dancing Gnome, you could have talked with the first ascentionist about it. If you look at the topo in Simey's guide, you'll see that it has Dr Paul going up the grey rock to the left. If you think that is incorrect, you could talk with them about it. The bolts were in the orange rock clearly unmarked in the topo.

But whilst you are carrying on like a pork chop, perhaps you'd like to chop the retro put in Underneath the Colours by none other than one of the first ascentionists of Dr Paul?

I climb, and I climb a lot too. But I can also read a guidebook. It appears not everybody else who climbs can. I can also communicate, and it appears you are too far up your self righteous ass to do so yourself. I am sick of people being belligerent wankers about chopping whilst expecting constant consultation about bolting. It works both ways. Just grow up. All of you. Bolters and choppers.
Wendy
24-May-2018
6:19:28 AM
This reminds me of a little situation that happened with Greenfingers. It's on old route of Noddy's, had been ignored for 30 years before I went and did it, and Lou and I thought it was pretty goey up the top slab for 13 and would be a more accessible route if there was a bolt in the finish. As Noddy and I are both adults, we had a little chat about it. We both went and redid the route and it turns out that Noddy finishes the route further to the left, where Brown Thumb now finishes, which does have gear and he didn't want a bolt in it. Now, I think my finish is a little different to his finish, and doesn't have gear in it, but the finish of the route isn't clear in the route description. Now his vision has been clarified, but because he didn't want a bolt in it and he had been fabulously mature and sensible about it, I didn't do it. Everyone was happy. How fûcking hard is it?

Talk with people. Clarify stuff that isn't clear. Negotiate. Make compromises. It's all part of getting along and finding workable solutions.

Am I the only person who thinks that anonymous bolt choppers going on rampages is asking for trouble?

Duang Daunk
24-May-2018
6:58:23 AM
On 24-May-2018 Wendy wrote:
>This reminds me of a little situation that happened with Greenfingers.
>It's on old route of Noddy's, had been ignored for 30 years before I went
>and did it, and Lou and I thought it was pretty goey up the top slab for
>13 and would be a more accessible route if there was a bolt in the finish.
>As Noddy and I are both adults, we had a little chat about it. We both
>went and redid the route and it turns out that Noddy finishes the route
>further to the left, where Brown Thumb now finishes, which does have gear
>and he didn't want a bolt in it. Now, I think my finish is a little different
>to his finish, and doesn't have gear in it, but the finish of the route
>isn't clear in the route description. Now his vision has been clarified,
>but because he didn't want a bolt in it and he had been fabulously mature
>and sensible about it, I didn't do it. Everyone was happy. How fûcking
>hard is it?
>
>Talk with people. Clarify stuff that isn't clear. Negotiate. Make compromises.
>It's all part of getting along and finding workable solutions.
>
>Am I the only person who thinks that anonymous bolt choppers going on
>rampages is asking for trouble?


You gave up your chance to safetyise your new direct finish sister?
Or maybe it isn’t that goey after all?
Ever heard of spacing gear further apart towards the top of pitches? Sounds like it fits right in by leaving as is.

What’s wrogn with goey anyway?
More importantly, why should you decide that for everyone else?

It smacks of same mentality as the run amok bolters.

Sound of one hand clapping happening here. Maybe get together with J Grollo to have two hands clapping for safety?
Dave_S
24-May-2018
7:35:28 AM
On 24-May-2018 Wendy wrote:
>Am I the only person who thinks that anonymous bolt choppers going on
>rampages is asking for trouble?

No, you aren't. In fact one of the reasons for the still-in-progress rewrite of the VCC bolting policy was the lack of any guidelines on what to do after finding that inappropriate (or questionably appropriate) bolts have been placed.
One Day Hero
24-May-2018
8:46:28 AM
On 24-May-2018 Wendy wrote:
>Am I the only person who thinks that anonymous bolt choppers going on
>rampages is asking for trouble?

I think people running around placing unconsulted bolts everywhere is what causes the trouble. It needs to be reeled in, and guerrilla chopping is the only way to get things started. Bolters mostly don't think that they have any obligation to come to the table.

gordoste
24-May-2018
9:31:05 AM
An idiot is an idiot, whether bolting or chopping. More people bolt than chop, so there are more idiot bolters. But idiot choppers should called out too and if what Wendy says is accurate, we have one here.
chalkischeap
24-May-2018
9:53:31 AM
Could you clip the new bolts from the old climb?

Was the new climb a bit squeezed in?

brent
24-May-2018
12:55:39 PM
The guidebook does show the route going straight up. Not sure what the first ascentionists did, but traversing slightly to the right and up (where the gear, holds and chalk were) seemed like the logical finish when I climbed it. Then again, maybe a lot of people have been climbing it wrong.

I was shocked to come back to the route a find a bolt right next to one of the cam placements though.
Wendy
24-May-2018
1:51:37 PM
On 24-May-2018 Duang Daunk wrote:

>
>You gave up your chance to safetyise your new direct finish sister?
>Or maybe it isn’t that goey after all?
>Ever heard of spacing gear further apart towards the top of pitches? Sounds
>like it fits right in by leaving as is.
>
>What’s wrogn with goey anyway?
>More importantly, why should you decide that for everyone else?
>
>It smacks of same mentality as the run amok bolters.

It's a 13m 13 FFS. What is so terrible about making a 13 that probably hadn't had a 2nd ascent until I unearthed it into a better lead for grade 13 climbers? Like when Simey added the bolt to Bygone. Bolts aren't just for hard climbers you know. But because I can actually communicate and Noddy is also a reasonable person who can communicate, we discussed it and it was important enough to him that I let it be. I had actually discussed it with a bunch of other climbers who were all for adding a bolt as well. But we went with Noddy's preference.

Discussion. It's the kind of important point I'm getting to here. Bolters need to do it. Choppers need to do it. Being gung ho wankers about chopping doesn't actually help. But I guess it makes you all feel like your dicks are bigger than they actually are.

widewetandslippery
24-May-2018
3:15:59 PM
That's sexist

FatBoy
24-May-2018
3:25:12 PM
On 24-May-2018 Wendy wrote:
>Discussion. It's the kind of important point I'm getting to here. Bolters
>need to do it. Choppers need to do it. Being gung ho wankers about chopping
>doesn't actually help. But I guess it makes you all feel like your dicks
>are bigger than they actually are.

Note the double standard - blokes couldn't get away with this type of response but I'll survive I think. Just.

Regardless, the intent of the previous part of the message is relevant. The OP essentially suggested they had authority to do what they like not just without consultation but with a specific "talk to the hand" mentality. That stinks just as much as retro-ing.

Things are getting ugly.
Wendy
24-May-2018
4:01:41 PM
On 24-May-2018 widewetandslippery wrote:
>That's sexist

Well, it is guys who are doing all the talk. And I am sick to death of the macho nonsense. It is all showing off.
One Day Hero
24-May-2018
4:34:54 PM
On 24-May-2018 Wendy wrote:
>Well, it is guys who are doing all the talk. And I am sick to death of
>the macho nonsense.

It's guys who do most of the bolting and all of the chopping too. Women mostly just decorate the crags with their lovely presences.
One Day Hero
24-May-2018
4:57:35 PM
On 24-May-2018 FatBoy wrote:
> That stinks just as much as retro-ing.

No it doesn't. That's the correct response to bullshit unconsulted retrobolts.
I'm highly amused that Doug named a bullshit retrobolt after me (with bolt next to good gear), and the first I hear about it is when it gets chopped and Wendy flips a shit about how the chopper should have done more consultation than the bolter. It's turning into fantastic soap opera.

>Things are getting ugly.

Oh no, not yet. Things will get ugly when my friends at dca go after actual symmetry by chopping established sport routes at sport crags.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
24-May-2018
7:27:31 PM
On 24-May-2018 Wendy wrote:
>It's a 13m 13 FFS. What is so terrible about making a 13 that probably
>hadn't had a 2nd ascent until I unearthed it into a better lead for grade
>13 climbers? Like when Simey added the bolt to Bygone. Bolts aren't just
>for hard climbers you know. But because I can actually communicate and
>Noddy is also a reasonable person who can communicate, we discussed it
>and it was important enough to him that I let it be. I had actually discussed
>it with a bunch of other climbers who were all for adding a bolt as well.
>But we went with Noddy's preference.
>
>Discussion. It's the kind of important point I'm getting to here. Bolters
>need to do it. Choppers need to do it. Being gung ho wankers about chopping
>doesn't actually help. (snip)
>
Hmm.
You have touched on an interesting point regarding consultation Wendy.
Do you think the outcome would have been different if First Ascentionist/s were no longer around to defend their style on their creation, as at least one was in this case?

From what you have written above it seems to me that (I'll use the term bracket creep, so as not to bring up slippery slope arguments again!), you and the 'bunch of other climbers' you discussed, about it with, were all advocating the addition of a bolt to that climb, thereby constituting bracket creep over time (ignored for 30 years, sic), to justify a retro under the various banners of safety, modernisation, make it popular, make it consistent for a grade, whatever!

If bracket creep is taken to it's nth extension, then I fear the future of climbing will be lost as it won't remember its historical roots.
Stugang
24-May-2018
10:35:26 PM
On 24-May-2018 Wendy wrote:

>
>It's a 13m 13 FFS


That is insane logic. Are you seriously saying retro Bolting an obscure 13m grade 13 so the masses can come and do it is a valid argument at a crag like araps.

FFS if you are a “grade 13” climber (whatever that means) at araps and you have climbed everything actually worth doing at the grade that isn’t “goey”. Then quite frankly you should be able to progress to something that is a bit “goey”.

If you can’t then who the fk are you to expect that a crag like araps should be developed to cater for your glacial progression. And people putting up climbs shouldn’t be catering to the 0% of the population who have done all the good safe ones that can’t progress. Heaven forbid I reckon they’d be able to do a good safe 14!

Quite frankly I think araps is at a stage of development where all new bolts should be banned below 25 (just a guess maybe higher maybe lower). If you can’t do it just leave it and stop giving shit arguments about “traditionally araps has had crap ethics so I am justified in being just as if not more crap.”
One Day Hero
25-May-2018
7:36:09 PM
On 24-May-2018 Stugang wrote:
>quite frankly
>Quite frankly

Foul, double-frankly!

Is the miraculously unearthed 13m gr13 any good? Tell me it's a 2 star route, and I might see why a retrobolt could be justified. Maybe Simey could chime in and tell us how many 2 and 3 star routes have been added at Araps in the last decade? Cause it sure looks like a bunch of desperate starving vultures picking through the carcass of a climbed out crag.

For example; why is Coming on Chris Direct a thing? That was probably the most egregious one I saw this time. Oh, you know what Araps really needs? A fuching contrived, single bodylength, bolted gr21 finish to a popular trad gr16!?!? Why? If you're so bored with the 1000 good routes at Araps that bolting that pox seemed like a good idea, then it's time to move. Go live in the Bluies. There's a lifetime of contrived, ringbolted shit up there now. Just go and climb the existing turd instead of bringing little chunks of it to the best trad crag in the country.

 Page 1 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 33
There are 33 messages in this topic.

 

Home | Guide | Gallery | Tech Tips | Articles | Reviews | Dictionary | Forum | Links | About | Search
Chockstone Photography | Landscape Photography Australia | Australian Landscape Photography | Landscape Photos Australia

Please read the full disclaimer before using any information contained on these pages.



Australian Panoramic | Australian Coast | Australian Mountains | Australian Countryside | Australian Waterfalls | Australian Lakes | Australian Cities | Australian Macro | Australian Wildlife
Landscape Photo | Landscape Photography | Landscape Photography Australia | Fine Art Photography | Wilderness Photography | Nature Photo | Australian Landscape Photo | Stock Photography Australia | Landscape Photos | Panoramic Photos | Panoramic Photography Australia | Australian Landscape Photography | High Country Mountain Huts | Mothers Day Gifts | Gifts for Mothers Day | Mothers Day Gift Ideas | Ideas for Mothers Day | Wedding Gift Ideas | Christmas Gift Ideas | Fathers Day Gifts | Gifts for Fathers Day | Fathers Day Gift Ideas | Ideas for Fathers Day | Landscape Prints | Landscape Poster | Limited Edition Prints | Panoramic Photo | Buy Posters | Poster Prints