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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 2 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 33
Author
Bolt Removal

Stugang
25-May-2018
8:09:44 PM
Damn you ODH. I did notice the double Frank this morning and was going to edit it cos I hate that sort of stuff too and try to avoid it. But hey shit happens when you post into choky with one thumb on the train home from the gym.

Ended up deciding not to edit cos I thought only the brain dead douches with more time on their hands that they deserve would pick up on such pedantic shit. Turns out I was right.

Back on topic- there is no 13 worth bolting at araps.

Macciza
25-May-2018
8:20:50 PM
On 25-May-2018 Stugang wrote:
>Back on topic- there is no 13 worth bolting at

What about the Bard? Surely it could do with bolts for the people who don’t have the gear, why should they miss out ...?

Oh, or is it a 12..? Prob feels like 13 to gym newbs, the bolts would make it more accessible...🤐
One Day Hero
25-May-2018
8:27:26 PM
On 25-May-2018 Stugang wrote:
>Damn you ODH.

Hey, cheer up, at least one person reads the crap you write.

>Back on topic- there is no 13 worth bolting at araps.

Nah, this route is amazing, the crux sequence will blow your mind.
Dave_S
26-May-2018
9:20:28 AM
On 25-May-2018 Stugang wrote:
>
>Back on topic- there is no 13 worth bolting at araps.

The FAs of Watchtower Chimney would probably disagree with you on that.

Transylvania too, though from memory that bolt perhaps isn't so essential.

Stugang
26-May-2018
10:10:13 AM
What I meant is going forward and not the past. I totally get and respect why some dude in gumboots in the era when the hardest climb in the world was 19 would be wanting a bolt in some of those old climbs.

But these days with modern standards, gear and availability of hundreds of other safe climbs at the grade I cannot see how it can be justified.

Chloe
26-May-2018
10:41:26 AM
On 25-May-2018 One Day Hero wrote:
>On 24-May-2018 Stugang wrote:
>>quite frankly
>>Quite frankly
>
>Foul, double-frankly!
>
>Is the miraculously unearthed 13m gr13 any good? Tell me it's a 2 star
>route, and I might see why a retrobolt could be justified. Maybe Simey
>could chime in and tell us how many 2 and 3 star routes have been added
>at Araps in the last decade? Cause it sure looks like a bunch of desperate
>starving vultures picking through the carcass of a climbed out crag.
>
>For example; why is Coming on Chris Direct a thing? That was probably
>the most egregious one I saw this time. Oh, you know what Araps really
>needs? A fuching contrived, single bodylength, bolted gr21 finish to a
>popular trad gr16!?!? Why? If you're so bored with the 1000 good routes
>at Araps that bolting that pox seemed like a good idea, then it's time
>to move. Go live in the Bluies. There's a lifetime of contrived, ringbolted
>shit up there now. Just go and climb the existing turd instead of bringing
>little chunks of it to the best trad crag in the country.

Sounds like Chockstone needs a name and shame thread to call out retros, silly additions, super contrived, out of character with crag, etc, etc, climbs?
Wendy
26-May-2018
11:00:33 AM
On 24-May-2018 Stugang wrote:
>On 24-May-2018 Wendy wrote:
>
>>
>>It's a 13m 13 FFS
>
>
>That is insane logic. Are you seriously saying retro Bolting an obscure
>13m grade 13 so the masses can come and do it is a valid argument at a
>crag like araps.
>
>FFS if you are a “grade 13” climber (whatever that means) at araps and
>you have climbed everything actually worth doing at the grade that isn’t
>“goey”. Then quite frankly you should be able to progress to something
>that is a bit “goey”.
>
>If you can’t then who the fk are you to expect that a crag like araps
>should be developed to cater for your glacial progression. And people putting
>up climbs shouldn’t be catering to the 0% of the population who have done
>all the good safe ones that can’t progress. Heaven forbid I reckon they’d
>be able to do a good safe 14!
>
>Quite frankly I think araps is at a stage of development where all new
>bolts should be banned below 25 (just a guess maybe higher maybe lower).
>If you can’t do it just leave it and stop giving shit arguments about “traditionally
>araps has had crap ethics so I am justified in being just as if not mor
>crap.”

Have you noticed how many people only climb low teens? That maybe those routes and areas with those grades are getting loved to death? The idea is to provide more options to spread the load around. Why is it ok to retro taste sensation because it's 25 but not an obscure 13? WTF have grades got to do with it at all? If it has no trad gear, it's a candidate for a bolt. If routes are getting ascents in their current form or the first ascentionist did it in good style and wants to preserve it that way, sure leave it sketchy. I don't think adding a bolt to an obscure route to make it something that people will climb is a travesty.
Wendy
26-May-2018
11:04:43 AM
On 24-May-2018 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>On 24-May-2018 Wendy wrote:
>>It's a 13m 13 FFS. What is so terrible about making a 13 that probably
>>hadn't had a 2nd ascent until I unearthed it into a better lead for grade
>>13 climbers? Like when Simey added the bolt to Bygone. Bolts aren't just
>>for hard climbers you know. But because I can actually communicate and
>>Noddy is also a reasonable person who can communicate, we discussed it
>>and it was important enough to him that I let it be. I had actually discussed
>>it with a bunch of other climbers who were all for adding a bolt as well.
>>But we went with Noddy's preference.
>>
>>Discussion. It's the kind of important point I'm getting to here. Bolters
>>need to do it. Choppers need to do it. Being gung ho wankers about chopping
>>doesn't actually help. (snip)
>>
>Hmm.
>You have touched on an interesting point regarding consultation Wendy.
>Do you think the outcome would have been different if First Ascentionist/s
>were no longer around to defend their style on their creation, as at least
>one was in this case?
>
>From what you have written above it seems to me that (I'll use the
>term bracket creep, so as not to bring up slippery slope arguments again!),
>you and the 'bunch of other climbers' you discussed, about it with,
>were all advocating the addition of a bolt to that climb, thereby constituting
>bracket creep over time (ignored for 30 years, sic), to justify a retro
>under the various banners of safety, modernisation, make it popular, make
>it consistent for a grade, whatever!
>
>If bracket creep is taken to it's nth extension, then I fear
>the future of climbing will be lost as it won't remember its historical
>roots.

There are plenty of routes to remember historical roots by. This is about making an obscure but pleasant route accessible to the masses who are loving the moderate routes to death. I don't advocate putting bolts in things that actually get ascents, even if I will never be leading them again with the gear available in them.
Wendy
26-May-2018
11:09:14 AM
On 25-May-2018 One Day Hero wrote:
>On 24-May-2018 Stugang wrote:
>>quite frankly
>>Quite frankly
>
>Foul, double-frankly!
>
>Is the miraculously unearthed 13m gr13 any good? Tell me it's a 2 star
>route, and I might see why a retrobolt could be justified. Maybe Simey
>could chime in and tell us how many 2 and 3 star routes have been added
>at Araps in the last decade? Cause it sure looks like a bunch of desperate
>starving vultures picking through the carcass of a climbed out crag.

It's actually about as good as you could expect a 13m 13 to be. They are never going to be mindblowing, but it's good.
>
>For example; why is Coming on Chris Direct a thing? That was probably
>the most egregious one I saw this time. Oh, you know what Araps really
>needs? A fuching contrived, single bodylength, bolted gr21 finish to a
>popular trad gr16!?!? Why? If you're so bored with the 1000 good routes
>at Araps that bolting that pox seemed like a good idea, then it's time
>to move. Go live in the Bluies. There's a lifetime of contrived, ringbolted
>shit up there now. Just go and climb the existing turd instead of bringing
>little chunks of it to the best trad crag in the country.

That's been there a while. You are behind the times. Yep, it's scrappy. The lower anchor just because people are too lazy to build a top roping anchor for Nose Job off the original bolts is also scrappy. I think you might get to go argue with Gordy about it.

Stugang
26-May-2018
2:06:12 PM
Don’t get hung up on the grade thing - I’d be more than happy with no more bolts at araps. I was just thinking there may be a futuristic wall somewhere or other that would actually be a worthwhile addition with a bolt or two.

So in summary you are willing to fk up one of the most unique trad(ish) crags on the planet with poxy additions that barely anyone will do and will be used as a precedent for slightly more egregious bolting, and then a bit more et fkin cetera.

I’ve got a good name for your route “aging disgracefullly”. Reckon the folk putting in the bolts you mention wouldn’t have dreamed of doing it when they were younger and better.
marky
26-May-2018
4:58:07 PM
Simple, if the bolts go in, just remove them and keep removing them. Eventually the will hopefully get the idea and realise it's becoming a costly endeavour. It's a real shame that there are people out there that are willing to even consider this at Araps of all places. For all you sport climbers out there that have there heart set on clipping bolts and adding to that.... Pull into the gramps on way through.... At least it's a shorter drive from Melbourne.

Macciza
26-May-2018
5:13:45 PM
Re: The Gr 13 route... Weren't you actually 'off route' and simply found it a bit 'goey' for 13? Either you should have realised you were off route... but you climbed it anyway it would seem... so it couldn't have been too bad... just right it up as an alternative finish... that might be a bit runout and maybe a grade harder... simple..
One Day Hero
27-May-2018
12:55:46 PM
On 26-May-2018 Wendy wrote:
>The idea
>is to provide more options to spread the load around.

Whoah, are you serious? Any time this gets tried, it just makes things worse. Numbers will swell in response to the new convenience. In a couple of years the old spots will be back to the same degradation level, plus the new spots will be trashed too.

If you want to reduce population pressure, make things more dangerous and less convenient.

 Page 2 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 33
There are 33 messages in this topic.

 

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