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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 1 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 36
Author
Quick Q Re: Solo TR

Zarb
9-Jun-2016
2:15:00 PM
I have a quick question about solo top roping, it probably has a simple answer that I am missing.

How can you descent the line that you just used, if it's weighed from the bottom (to allow smooth travel of your solo devices during the ascent)?
Arent you effectively giving yourself a firemans belay?

shortman
9-Jun-2016
2:25:04 PM
A pack or something isn't heavy enough for it to be like a firemans belay.

You just need enough weight to put a 'bit' of tension on the rope on the way up.

Zarb
9-Jun-2016
2:50:32 PM
I think I may put too much in my pack...

Thanks! :)
surfziggy
9-Jun-2016
2:51:52 PM
Just coil up the remaining rope in a green woolies reusable bag and clip it to the bottom of the rope. It's easy to lift it up and get the grigri on below the mini traxion. It's best to get to the anchors and go in direct with a lanyard before doing this.

Or the alternate approach is to tie a fig 8 in the middle of the line and put the mini trax on one strand, and then the grigri on a lanyard on the other. As you climb you can pull up slack through the grigri from time to time as a backup. I used to do this, but it gets too hard when you're working routes at limit. So I opt for the slightly riskier but less faff approach of single static line, single mini traxion.

I've also experimented over the last 3 years with multiple devices(shunt + mini), chest harnesses and all that bollox. But in the end single static line, mini traxion, and grigri to descend is easiest. Despite what people say it's safer due to simplicity of the system and less tangle of ropes.

Make sure you use a carabiner that won't cross load. But you probably already knew this shizzle.

surfziggy
9-Jun-2016
2:55:09 PM


Zarb
9-Jun-2016
3:11:30 PM
I've only ever done TR solo on a Silent Partner and topped out so never had to worry about descent. Tomorrow I'm planning on heading to Mt York and dropping a rope down Peppercorner and doing some offwidth laps :D

This time though I'm trying out the Mini Trax and Basic on the single static. Seems like a lot less messing around.
One Day Hero
9-Jun-2016
3:11:39 PM
On 9/06/2016 surfziggy wrote:
>But in the end single static
>line, mini traxion, and grigri to descend is easiest. Despite what people
>say it's safer due to simplicity of the system and less tangle of ropes.

Sweet stoner logic bro, but nope. Best practice (and least death) is to fold rope in half, protect the choppy edges, use a mini-trax, micro-trax or whatever on one line (this line is also for abseiling on). If you can afford an asap, put that on the other line. Never need to touch it going up or down, asap just cruises along next to you watching your back. Asap is your best buddy, doesn't vague out, doesn't get distracted by boobs, only thing asap cares about is keeping you off the deck.

If you can't operate two ropes without them getting clustered, perhaps this isn't the correct sport for you. Also, if you can find human friends who are as switched on as asap, just go climbing with them instead!

Eduardo Slabofvic
9-Jun-2016
3:48:43 PM
On 9/06/2016 One Day Hero wrote:
>Also, if you can find human friends
>who are as switched on as asap, just go climbing with them instead!

Good luck with that one.

I also take a tibloc and a couple of slings, in case you need to jug out or swap over onto another device.

I use a shunt, because I own one, and I don't own anything else, so I need to be able to swap over onto a descender if/when required, as its quite possible that i/you/we wont make it to the top.

Wear a helmet and use a rope protector of some description over the edge. I can't comment on the other devices mentioned, but as for the shunt, if you come off, just commit to coming off, don't try grabbing the shunt in panic (very bad!).

Shunts are great. They don't hot coq about themselves, they quite when you're climbing, don't endlessly say "bro" as if its a substitute for not being witty, or start every sentence with the word "I".

I am tempted by an asap though, they look nice.
surfziggy
9-Jun-2016
4:01:06 PM

>Sweet stoner logic bro, but nope. Best practice (and least death) is to fold rope in half, protect the choppy edges, use a mini-trax, micro-trax or whatever on one line (this line is also for abseiling on). If you can afford an asap, put that on the other line. Never need to touch it going up or down, asap just cruises along next to you watching your back. Asap is your best buddy, doesn't vague out, doesn't get distracted by boobs, only thing asap cares about is keeping you off the deck.

It's up to you what your margin of safety is. And I'm not encouraging anyone to do anything they're not comfortable.

What I've found though, (I've run over 1000 laps using this system in just the last year), is that on overhanging routes at limit there often isn't a way to pull in the slack on the grigri on the second rope. It also has a tendency to get in the way, by falling behind you. The extra sling on the belay loop also runs the risk of snagging in the mini traxion. Also, consider that when you normally climb on lead you trust one rope, one belay loop (on the belayer).

I use rope protectors at the anchors and a static rope. My other suggestions for safety is that on overhanging routes, rap down and clip the rope through draws. Also, I've used a directional at the bottom of a route if it traverses.
Also, make sure you at least carry a prussik and a sling or a single jumar. I've had to use these many times in the past after doing 3 or 4 back to back laps, ending up super pumped and hanging in free space.

I'm not telling anyone how to do it, just explaining the system I use and have used for several years. It's also the same system I know has been used by a full time climbing friend for 20+ years without incident.

I'm not closed minded so will check out the asap as well.


surfziggy
9-Jun-2016
4:07:23 PM
Eduardo - I've used both Mini-T and shunt, I prefer the mini-t. It works better and I have more confidence it will lock off.

ODH - Out of interest, are you using semi static or dynamic ropes. I use a tendon 11mm semi static heavy duty caving rope.
surfziggy
9-Jun-2016
4:09:50 PM
Also, an interesting subject in this area is how to get to the top of a route that doesn't have easy access from the top. In other words how to get your rope to the anchors by clip sticking up without relying on one bolt. Answers on a post card...

Zarb
9-Jun-2016
4:11:46 PM
I was under the assumption that doubling the rope is to allow for redundancy in your solo devices, not the rope itself?
The petzl website recommends either a separate device for each rope, or two devices on the single line. I would use the double rope system if I could, just to avoid having to jerry-rig a chest setup, but my static is only 35m :(
surfziggy
9-Jun-2016
4:21:10 PM
Both I would say (i.e. totally redundant system).

On the plus side having two lines makes the change over to descent much quicker and safer as you just pull up the slack through the Grigri., then disengage the mini traxion.

I use both systems but on steeper ground prefer the single line, single device approach.

Also a consideration is what you mentioned, length of route versus length of rope. It may be that your only choice is single strand or bringing two ropes to the crag.
surfziggy
9-Jun-2016
4:45:40 PM
ODH - regarding ASAP as a backup. It looks a good device.

Advantages over a Grigri (as backup) look to be that it moves with you, and takes some of the force out of the fall. But then if you're on a static (and you've rigged directionals or clipped the rope into draws on overhangs) these are usually minimal. I found that falls on a dynamic rope were worse due to the stretch in the rope. Especially at the start of routes which have bouldery starts.
Disadvantages seem to be the price (350$?) and the fact that you still need to put something else on the rope to descend? Also, it looks to be a relatively complex device, relying on centrifugal force to lock off. However, I'm sure it works well and is bomb proof, after all it's designed for ropes access.

deadbudgy
9-Jun-2016
4:51:06 PM
pretty sure the ASAP goes up and down

ajfclark
9-Jun-2016
5:46:01 PM
On 9/06/2016 Zarb wrote:
>Just to avoid having to jerry-rig a chest setup, but my static is only 35m :(

I think you mean jury-rig.
surfziggy
9-Jun-2016
6:30:34 PM
Might go up and down, but I don't think you can use it to descend/rap. Which of course then means you have to put another device on the line. Which to me then partially negates the effectiveness of having two ropes. Reading between the lines of ODH's original post his reasoning is to increase safety. My reasoning for sometimes using two lines, is safety and speed in swapping over to descent.

Not wrong in my eyes, but just more than one way to skin a cat.

Zarb
9-Jun-2016
8:41:30 PM
On 9/06/2016 ajfclark wrote:
>On 9/06/2016 Zarb wrote:
>>Just to avoid having to jerry-rig a chest setup, but my static is only
>35m :(
>
>I think you mean jury-rig.

Oops!

Macciza
9-Jun-2016
10:11:22 PM
Well for me it really depends on whether I'm planning to fall off a lot or not...

This is what I did up at Bardens a few weeks ago, using a modified grigri...
Tied rope to tree, grigri setup as if abseiling up route, and climbed up clipping draws as I went until I got to the anchors. Put 2 draws there and rapped straight back to the ground. Climbed up 1 or 2 m left of the route, pulling in slack as I went up, got to the top and rapped straight back down. Did the same on the right hand side but stopped at anchors to clean them and retread to rap off.
Packed it all up and soloed out the easier stuff at the end...

deadbudgy
10-Jun-2016
8:34:54 AM
On 9/06/2016 surfziggy wrote:
>Might go up and down, but I don't think you can use it to descend/rap.
>Which of course then means you have to put another device on the line.
>Which to me then partially negates the effectiveness of having two ropes.
>Reading between the lines of ODH's original post his reasoning is to increase
>safety. My reasoning for sometimes using two lines, is safety and speed
>in swapping over to descent.
>
>Not wrong in my eyes, but just more than one way to skin a cat.

Yeah, sorry my bad. I was thinking of the Id. You are right.

 Page 1 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 36
There are 36 messages in this topic.

 

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