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belaying seconds on a multipitch |
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15-Apr-2016 1:15:07 PM
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On 15/04/2016 kieranl wrote: There is however the slight problem of your hands getting scraped between the rope and the rock.
That can actually be a minor PITA. I had a situation not long ago where I was belaying my second direct off the anchor on autoblock but the anchor was low so the climbers side of the rope was in contact with slopey top of the climb. Anyway, sure enough, as I go to take in slack my climber fell, pulling the rope taught and pinning my non-brake hand fairly firmly between rope and rock. It hurt.
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15-Apr-2016 1:52:03 PM
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PITA? You belay with your arse? ;-)
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15-Apr-2016 4:15:18 PM
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On 15/04/2016 ajfclark wrote:
>PITA? You belay with your arse? ;-)
I've climbed using my arse plenty of times - in fact I've developed a stemming technique that utilises the cheek smear very effectively indeed, can be very restful - but I'm yet to find much use for arse in a belay.
Back on topic everyone.
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15-Apr-2016 7:09:27 PM
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I belay with my arse from time to time. Most effective unless you've got an Eduardo on the other end.
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15-Apr-2016 8:54:00 PM
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Yeah nah (woof woof), better you belay me with some other part of your anatomy that hasn't been subjected to such high levels of abuse, there's a good boy.
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15-Apr-2016 9:40:13 PM
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On 14/04/2016 martym wrote:
>What is people's preferred method for top belay from the very top - for
>example at Point Perp where you have nothing to raise the anchor from?
In this situation I usually:
- make anchor
-sit on the edge (facing out )
- clip into focal point with a clove hitch
-then tie a fig 8 on a bight level level with my hip with the rope coming out the dead side of clove hitch
-belay off this figure 8 as if it were my belay loop.
Makes escaping the belay easier as you can just tie off device and walk back and untie from end of rope.
If pitch comes up at an angle, I clip a biner or QuickDraw between my belay loop and the bight of rope in the figure 8 to keep it all within reach.
If you tie the fig 8 in the right spot you should easily be able to lock the device off without the risk of it pulling you over the edge if there's too much stretch in the rope when weighted.
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18-Apr-2016 10:32:44 AM
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I definitely prefer to belay off the anchor with a simple munter hitch wherever possible. Uses a single carabiner, holds a fall well, easy to lower, doesn't twist the rope if you keep the strands reasonably parallel, straightforward to tie off. You can quickly turn it into an auto-locking munter with the addition of one carabiner (though not while weighted).
If I can't arrange to get the anchor point above or behind me, I'll consider a harness belay redirected through the anchor if the stance is good, ie I won't get badly sucked into the anchor if the second falls.
I generally only use an ATC guide or similar autoblock device off the anchor when using double ropes. It's useful for bringing up 2 seconds simultaneously, but either way you really need to have practiced the lowering faff-round and use a munter backup when releasing. If I think a second might need lowering I may pre-rig the lowering setup.
I've found belaying directly off the harness to be a recipe for considerable discomfort if the second falls and the anchor or stance is not ideal. You need to be very careful about having a tight attachment from you to the anchor and keeping that in-line with the belay device and rope, so your body is not a load-bearing part of the system. Rope management can also be a pain due to your restricted movement range.
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18-Apr-2016 1:54:50 PM
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I'm a bit confused about the word autoblock in this thread. Is it a belay device in guide mode (belay assist / self locking) or a prusik setup on the rope going to the second?
I think all my reference books are pre "guide mode"!
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18-Apr-2016 2:25:44 PM
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Belay device in guide mode.
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18-Apr-2016 4:36:46 PM
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On 14/04/2016 martym wrote:
>What is people's preferred method for top belay from the very top - for
>example at Point Perp where you have nothing to raise the anchor from?
I'm with Keiran on this one. Rig your anchor a fair way back, locate your reverso at a slight depression in the rock (or use sneakers and pack to keep it off the rock), then tie another knot closer to the edge so that you can clip in and watch your second having a bad time on the route you cruised (only because you have it totally wired)
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19-Apr-2016 7:03:15 AM
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On the topic of anchors for belaying up a second, thought I would ask this here rather than on a new thread.
When pieces are close together and I want to tie in with the rope, I use that self equalising bunny ears trick with an overhhand on the bight next to the knot (underneath) to attach the plate in guide mode.
However when pieces are far apart I've started to use the method of tying in with the rope where you clip each piece as you would as if on the climb, then run the rope back to the harness with clove hitches on the belay loop (I assume this is the regular method of tying in with the rope?).
Is there a way to use guide mode on this second method of tying in? Or will it always be off the hip and through a redirect?
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19-Apr-2016 7:48:50 AM
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I'm usually as independent from my anchor as I can be.
Using a cordelette, I build my anchor, measure out and clove myself to the master point and put an alpine on the other side of the clove where I want the belay device and go off that.
C is clove, AB is alpine butterfly
gear- -\ /- - - - - - - - - - AB
gear- - -C \ - -Belay
gear- -/ \- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - me
When I'm building an anchor with the rope, it depends where the gear is, but I try to use a clove on the furthest piece and then a couple of alpines or directional eights to connect another couple of pieces into the anchor. Alpine where I want the belay device and possibly a fig 8 where I want to sit.
gear C- - - - - - - - - - AB- - - - - - - - - - AB- - - - - - - - - - AB- - - - - - - - - - fig8
\ gear- -/ gear - - - -/ \- belay
\
\- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - me
I'll clip that last fig 8 to my harness if the back piece is only a single piece. If it's a bunny and both pieces are good I might not bother depending.
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22-Apr-2016 7:32:38 PM
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Just being contrary... I much prefer to belay off the harness. The belay device doesn't move around so it is much easier to take in slack, especially when the second is moving fast. Easy to use your legs to take some of the weight off the anchors, if needed. Better belaying means less chance something will go wrong.
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22-Apr-2016 11:03:40 PM
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It's possible to have the best of both worlds.
gear C- - - - - - - - - - AB- - - - - - - - - - AB- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - fig8
\ gear- -/ gear - - - -/
\
\- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - me
I make the fig 8 small, clip the belay device into it, and then a separate biner from the fig 8 to my belay loop. Sits almost exactly where it would sit if I were belaying directly off the harness and allows me to let all (or most) of the seconds weight go through to the anchor if they are hanging around for ages.
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26-Apr-2016 1:46:48 PM
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Go off your harness, make it uncomfortable, scream at your second if they weight the rope. Everyone is motivated to climb harder and especially good on long multi-pitch where you need to move fast.
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26-Apr-2016 8:15:51 PM
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On 26/04/2016 ambyeok wrote:
>Go off your harness, make it uncomfortable, scream at your second if they
>weight the rope. Everyone is motivated to climb harder and especially good
>on long multi-pitch where you need to move fast.
Fully agree, but whatz' that got to do with
gear C- - - - - - - - - - AB- - - - - - - - - - AB- - - - - - - - - - AB- - - - - - - - - - fig8
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It isn't rocket sience peeps, even if mikl an ajf might present it that way.
Assumin Ur 2nd can follow, just climb the pitch an belay as U normally do, cos anything else will likely complicate ur thinking, especially if Ur wasted by dehydration or freaking due being outa the gym etc, and that iz when mistakes can happen with unfamiliar systems an techneeqs.
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26-Apr-2016 8:19:09 PM
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I thought I presented it pretty clearly as not rocket science. If what I showed is complicated, perhaps climbing isn't for you?
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26-Apr-2016 8:22:38 PM
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On 26/04/2016 ajfclark wrote:
>I thought I presented it pretty clearly as not rocket science. If what
>I showed is complicated, perhaps climbing isn't for you?
Ur typo-drawing iz not up 2 the mikl (or Wendy) standard.
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