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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

Author
Alex Honnold: What risk means after Dean Potter

ajfclark
30-May-2015
8:59:19 AM
http://time.com/3898371/alex-honnold-dean-potter-climbing/

IdratherbeclimbingM9
31-May-2015
6:48:27 PM
From the link posted above.
Dean’s pursuits were quixotic. They were impractical and unrealistic, and yet he was romantically devoted to them. And that dedication is what allowed him to help shape his sports for almost 20 years. His death has reminded me to reflect carefully on my own decisions about risk.
There’s a constant tension in climbing, and really all exploration, between pushing yourself into the unknown but trying not to push too far. The best any of us can do is to tread that line carefully. Dean was making his choices clear-eyed. He knew the risks in his life, and he was still willing to pursue his dreams. How many of the rest of us live with that kind of intention?


~> An interesting insight into Alex's intentions.
TimP
1-Jun-2015
9:28:23 AM
I thought this was a really good response to the tragedy and was impressed by Alex's writing. He is in a position to reflect on this being a free solo climber. I like climbing as it offers a challenge that can be just a little beyond your abilities, I also like the work to keep extending those abilities and the surprise at how far you can go (when frightened!). Climbing offers an open ended escalation of this right up to these guys levels.

From the article:

>"These types of comments [critical of Potter] really rankled me because they belittle how much thought and effort Dean invested in his arts. No one spends 20 years at the cutting edge of their sport by being an adrenaline junkie all the time. Most people had only seen his climbing and flying through short YouTube videos and never got a glimpse of the years of training behind them. Dean actually had a thoughtful and conservative approach, building up to things slowly over time as he became physically and psychologically prepared."

Superstu
1-Jun-2015
10:12:27 AM
Clearly all that rest day reading has had an effect on Mr Honnold. I don't think I've seen "quixotic" used in a climbing mag rant before.
spicelab
1-Jun-2015
11:24:01 AM
On 1/06/2015 TimP wrote:
>I thought this was a really good response to the tragedy and was impressed
>by Alex's writing.

I've been impressed by all of his articles over the last couple of years. Would be very disappointing to find he has a ghostwriter.
martym
3-Jun-2015
1:35:28 PM
I watched his interview on CNN & then came across this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g16fKN7qM34 about Dean Potter, where he mentions death several times, including talking about seeing Dan Osman dead with blood weeping from his eyes like tears. Potter says "I don't want that to happen, not ever." Poignant but also emblematic of how serious he took his activities.
In the same video he bails on a highline after a pulley breaks and he decides he's not in the right frame of mind.

A video about Alex Lowe summed it up well where another climber described his death:
"I'll bet that 3 seconds before the avalanche struck, Alex would have been so excited, thinking I'm here with great friends in this beautiful place. What more could you want?"
I imagine the last moments in Potter's life were similar.

Pat
5-Jun-2015
5:20:08 PM


>"I'll bet that 3 seconds before the avalanche struck, Alex would have
>been so excited, thinking I'm here with great friends in this beautiful
>place. What more could you want?"
>I imagine the last moments in Potter's life were similar.

They might have been, but I wouldn't want to have the very last three seconds if that was the only way to get the first part of the experience. I can imagine that realising you were going to roll it up in a ball might be briefly and finally very unpleasant.
martym
6-Jun-2015
11:48:49 PM
On 5/06/2015 Pat wrote:
>
>
>>"I'll bet that 3 seconds before the avalanche struck, Alex would have
>>been so excited, thinking I'm here with great friends in this beautiful
>>place. What more could you want?"
>>I imagine the last moments in Potter's life were similar.
>
>They might have been, but I wouldn't want to have the very last three
>seconds if that was the only way to get the first part of the experience.
>I can imagine that realising you were going to roll it up in a ball might
>be briefly and finally very unpleasant.

http://www.aihw.gov.au/deaths/leading-causes-of-death/
  1. Coronary Heart Disease
  2. Cerebrovascular Diseases
  3. Dementia and Altzhemiers Disease
  4. Lung Cancer
  5. Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease


Age Range: 25–44
  1. Suicide
  2. Accidental poisoning
  3. Land transport accidents
  4. Coronary heart disease
  5. Breast cancer


I imagine in all cases the last 3 seconds is unpleasant.

Pat
7-Jun-2015
9:11:10 PM
Well I get what you mean, but usually Cancer and Dementia deaths are not unpleasant in the last few moments, in the Potter kind of way in Australia for the sufferers. For those of us observing - yes they would be.

What I meant was that for me, enjoying the surrounds and the experience would not sufficiently balance out the negatives of three seconds of horror. So for instance, I have specifically asked my family that if I ever die climbing under no circumstance say I 'died doing something I loved', because I have no love of traumatically bleeding to death or severing my spinal column. Please say the truth - something horrible went wrong.

From what Honold wrote, Dean pursued his activities in a fairly careful way. We'll never know, but perhaps his last three seconds carried some form of second thoughts or regret. Looking at your original post again Marty I can see the point you were making I think. And see that I might have initially misunderstood you. Yes I can imagine just before it went wrong he was having the same experience. I just think that sometimes we gloss over the realities of what the very last moments might have been like and how different they might be to the joy(? or whatever) was being experienced immediately before. Stay safe - live long.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
17-Jun-2015
1:41:36 PM
On 7/06/2015 Pat wrote:
>(snip)
>What I meant was that for me, enjoying the surrounds and the experience
>would not sufficiently balance out the negatives of three seconds of horror.
>So for instance, I have specifically asked my family that if I ever die
>climbing under no circumstance say I 'died doing something I loved', because
>I have no love of traumatically bleeding to death or severing my spinal
>column. Please say the truth - something horrible went wrong.
>
>From what Honold wrote, Dean pursued his activities in a fairly careful
>way. We'll never know, but perhaps his last three seconds carried some
>form of second thoughts or regret. (snip) Yes I can imagine just before it went
>wrong he was having the same experience. I just think that sometimes we
>gloss over the realities of what the very last moments might have been
>like and how different they might be to the joy(? or whatever) was being
>experienced immediately before. Stay safe - live long.

Interesting subject tangent you touch on there Pat.
I have given it some thought in the past (started back when I was a teenager), and came to some conclusions back then that have been reinforced along the way since, and which include the following for you to ponder...

One seldom feels the knockout blow. If one survives/recovers then that is when the pain begins.

One's mind may refuse to cope with the harshness of reality in a time-considered logical way, when everything is compressed to the final moments. It might refuse outright and ponder other vagaries like 'I wonder what x or y will think of this', or 'so this is what it's like', or 'that is an interesting cloud I hadn't noticed before' (you get the drift)...

Either that, or it will be so absolutely focussed on the moment that concentration supplants all other thoughts; eg 'I need 1.5127% more drift', or (for example), 'LEFT' (ie needing to go left is all that neon-lights up in the thought process).

I doubt much fear is involved, as fear and enjoyment are balanced like a see saw on the fulcrum of concentration (in my limited life experience), ie if the enjoyment or concentration factors take precedence then fear is diminished...

I am unfussed about those remaining saying I croaked doing something I loved should I go out that way, no matter the reality of associated trauma it may encompass.

One thing is for sure. We will all find out some time.

phillipivan
17-Jun-2015
7:40:35 PM
There're ain't no money to be won betting on your own cause of death; or how pleasant it may be.

I doubt I'll pass on doing something ballsy or perhaps inspirational, however watching relatives slowly wither away in ICU as a teenager cemented a view that preserving life at all costs is not, well, what I would wish for myself.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
18-Jun-2015
9:47:13 AM
On 17/06/2015 phillipivan wrote:
>There're ain't no money to be won betting on your own cause of death; or how pleasant it may be.
>
Made me think of this ...


;-)

phillipivan
18-Jun-2015
10:59:04 AM
I've received a few good on the job zaps. None fatal. I don't remember any of them hurtin' *that* bad (though I'd rather eat a waffle), however they all left me feeling rather shitty for several hours, in one case emotional and in another obstinate. It's a weird thing.

There are 13 messages in this topic.

 

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