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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

Author

Manufacturing

dalai

16/06/2005
4:32:53 PM

On 16/06/2005 Onsight wrote:
>This sort of chipping is outright stealing from the future of the sport.
>It leaves those climbers of the future a big fat nothing (bouldery or otherwise).
>Everyone thought India was hard (or still do – whatever) and it was cutting-edge
>in its day, but honestly, now it’s far from it.

I am talking about having climbs which are consistent for the grade. I have found these style of routes more flowing and hence enjoyable rather a stroll with a couple of moves totally out of character with the rest...

Though not enhanced - a good example of routes at the Cascade sector at Ceuse. It's covered with amazing routes. Mirage, Privilege du Serpent etc. Then there were routes like Super Mickey and Tenere. The later couple of routes were far less enjoyable for me as the both had a bouldery section out of character with the rest. Super Mickey in the bulge and Tenere a desperate little boulder problem around a roof immediately after a bomber lying down no hands rest where you could kip for ages.

>In the future climbers
>here might be looking for 36's, 37's, and beyond. Just because many of
>us mightn't be able to climb anything like that hard, or even envisage
>it, doesn't mean swat.

Thats when you start knocking holds off to make it consistent for that harder grade... ;-)


IdratherbeclimbingM9

16/06/2005
4:57:46 PM

I appreciate that the grade issue was a relative one Onsight, and I agree with your sentiment, rather than the 'comfortise the flow of the climb' consistancy at grade thingy*.

*This point of view seems to me to be one of personal preference. It is apparent that Onsight and Dalai / Kent represent different preferences.

In the future there may well be those who seek out the challenging 'bouldery crux on a cruise' type climb, simply to experience the ebb and flow of it!

As for knocking off holds to make the harder grade consistent (I know you were trolling), that equals chipping also. Better methinks to raise the bar on an individual basis by climbing it without chalk or friction boots to make it harder for oneself if a challenge is still required on that particular climb.
While there is plenty of rock I'd go and look for another climb rather than bugger with comfortising up/down an existing one.


alrob

16/06/2005
5:43:36 PM

On 16/06/2005 dalai wrote:
>Thats when you start knocking holds off to make it consistent for that
>harder grade... ;-)

if you don't have a shovel marty, i've got one ya can borrow!

Onsight

16/06/2005
6:38:23 PM

Hey, Alrob!!! You got a crowbar I can borrow?!!!

On 16/06/2005 dalai wrote:
>Thats when you start knocking holds off to make it consistent for that
>harder grade... ;-)

On 16/06/2005 dalai wrote:
>Ethically I am against it - I have never nor will ever chip.

Good to hear that's really your position… because... I think if you can justify what you’re advocating, then it’s not so hard to justify lots of other things, like chopping bolts...

Troll on...


mousey

16/06/2005
6:40:46 PM

whats wrong with chopping bolts??
just this morning i went around to the glen and chopped all the bolts on larger than life- it was all naturally protectable by bathooks, modified #0 rps & cable ties.and theres a bomber #12 bigbro placement in the ledge at the end. im going to leaveit all fixed in with araldite though,to save peoplethe inconvnience r carrying a rack up the climb.


alrob

16/06/2005
7:01:47 PM

On 16/06/2005 Onsight wrote:
>Hey, Alrob!!! You got a crowbar I can borrow?!!!

what was that ROCK article a few years titled? Wire brushes and cement trucks?


alrob

16/06/2005
7:06:46 PM

On 16/06/2005 JCP wrote:
>whats wrong with chopping bolts??
>just this morning i went around to the glen and chopped all the bolts
>on larger than life- it was all naturally protectable by bathooks, modified
>#0 rps & cable ties.and theres a bomber #12 bigbro placement in the ledge
>at the end. im going to leaveit all fixed in with araldite though,to save
> peoplethe inconvnience r carrying a rack up the climb.

yes, but who is going to re-cable tie the route when they become mank?


mousey

16/06/2005
7:57:13 PM

NSW recabletieing fund? ill have you know, i ran some veryscientific tests justthen, and i discovered that cable ties are stronger and more secure than U botls!!!

re:ROCK article- yer that was a complete bullshit article by steph stewart. i think he lives in blackheath now, aparently his wife runs indigo duck (that 'magic happns' lookin shop near the friars)- if i ever happen to meet him it will be a very interestingn discussion indeed....

dalai

16/06/2005
8:04:23 PM

On 16/06/2005 Onsight wrote:
>Good to hear that's really your position… because... I think if you can
>justify what you’re advocating, then it’s not so hard to justify lots of
>other things, like chopping bolts...
>
>Troll on...

Actually I wasn't trolling with that Onsight, merely pointing out practices which are already taking place globally as you must be aware. To say otherwise is naive...

All I am trying to point out is that is hypercritical on one hand to be so staunch anti something yet having climbed on a lot of these enhanced climbs. To try and avoid these climbs would leave you with a short tick list indeed.

Bringing up bolt chopping is merely poor form Onsight As if the cliff environment isn't stuffed up enough with all the other practices... The remains of bolt choppers activities are rarely in the interest of cliff preservation, due to the shocking mess often left behind - more usually the result of ego!


Hawkman

16/06/2005
8:11:34 PM

>re:ROCK article- yer that was a complete bullshit article by steph stewart.
>i think he lives in blackheath now, aparently his wife runs indigo duck
>(that 'magic happns' lookin shop near the friars)- if i ever happen to
>meet him it will be a very interestingn discussion indeed....

i believe he actually wrote the article a fair while before it was embelished in rock. got a suprise when it was in print.


mousey

16/06/2005
8:17:09 PM

well while we've averted your attention ot bolting chopping folks...does anyone know whne martin is going tofinishhis work on the bolts between shipley & the glen???

retro: snuck one in there on me steve! well i apologise if thats the case...i justcant imagine chris baxter doing that?!!!! **a hexesque 'snigger snigger' escapes fromthe mouseys lips**


IdratherbeclimbingM9

16/06/2005
8:27:11 PM

>cable ties
... go brittle in the sun much quicker than tat slings do !!


rodw

16/06/2005
8:35:03 PM

Its not about making a climb "sustained". Its all about accepting the challenge mother nature has thrown at us, if that means it a grade 29 with only one hard move so be it, why actively try and change something just to suit you???....

Bolts are not even close to being the same issue, a well placed bolt isn't designed to make something easier to climb, just means you wont deck or die. Yeah its a line in the sand but a common sense one.

If you cant do the route, walk away, plenty more rock out there..or better still accept the challenge and train up. And just because some ego driven souls in the past have done it, be it in Australia or overseas, dosn't give you any justification to do it again....the arguement that it happens elsewhere isn't an arguement.


IdratherbeclimbingM9

16/06/2005
8:39:04 PM

KP
12/06/2005
12:40:14 AM
>what a great thread this was.
>Theoretical question. (snip)

KP must be chuckling nicely having fanned the flames on this topic back into life again!
10/10 for the successful troll there cobber.
:)


Hawkman

16/06/2005
8:41:17 PM

more KP gold. if only he could see this from Nowra


mousey

16/06/2005
8:43:39 PM

ooohhhhh i was bent over and severly trolled in the a-hole, and i never suspected a thing :(

Onsight

16/06/2005
11:19:02 PM

On 16/06/2005 rodw wrote:
>Yeah its a line in the sand but a common sense one.

Hooray for common sense!!!


IdratherbeclimbingM9

17/06/2005
9:00:58 AM

On 16/06/2005 JCP wrote:
>i never suspected a thing :(
Your cred. points are taking a battering too?
...Uncle Chester will be pleased??
:-)


shiltz

17/06/2005
12:02:51 PM

Manufacturing routes sucks. If you climb something and it turns out to be a one move wonder then don't give it a star. Why do people feel the need to change the rock? Not every piece of rock is going to yield a sustained, consistent 3 star experience.
If you like manufacturing routes then get a job at a climbing gym!

Goodvibes

17/06/2005
1:04:43 PM

Totally agree with you Rod, Simon and Shiltz. There is never any justification to chipping. There are heaps of top quality routes out there with bouldery cruxes. Just because one person likes sustained, power endurance climbing doesn't mean everyone does. If sustained routes are your thing then go find them, don't try and make them. If you want every route to be a three star classic perfectly suited to you, go set routes inside.

There are 241 messages in this topic.