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Sport Climbing to be Prohibited in Tasmanian WHA


nmonteith

22-Jan-2015
10:38:03 AM

On 21/01/2015 johny wrote:
>So climbs with bolts arent climbs?

I never said that. All I said was that climbs don't have to have bolts.

>Do you draw the line at anchors or any
>fixed gear on route or just "bolts"?

Anything that leaves a permanent scar - so by definition all bolts. Slings around bollards or in threads are ok as they are easily removed. Big ugly messes of faded white slings should be trimmed and replaced with something more color matched to the cliff. Pitons - a grey area. Why doesn't someone make stainless steel pitons? They always seem to rust out...

>This is also a nonsensical statement.
>You never place bolts or climb bolted routes? Right...

I'm not referring to banning all bolts everywhere. I'm referring to the location that this topic is about, the WHA area of Tasmania. It's an area that probably only has a handful of bolts right now, and most of those were placed using hand-drills.

>So you think its "nice" if there are areas free of bolts. Ok this is the
>first thing you said that makes any sense. I think its good that some areas
>are gear only. Almost always, bolted anchors are necessary or you just
>end up with a bunch of crap that people rap off of or force dangerous eroding
>decents.

I'm not sure that bolted anchors are 'almost always' 'necessary'. Most of the wilderness areas involve topping out and walking back down. I'd hate to see a bunch of rap bolts placed down something like Frenchmans Cap for example. I do think the 'erosion' reason for rap anchors is sometimes exaggerated and is more to do with convenience than environmental concerns. Descents in most of the WHA areas usually involve rock-hopping for miles.

>Also hand drilling a couple bolts while new routeing ground up
>is about as "trad" as you can get (trad climbing being a completely bullshit
>made-up term by the way) but this would apparently require the permission
>of some fat ass bureaucrat now. Glad you approve.

Hand-drilling certainly slows down the bolters! I used to place a lot of hand-drilled bolts in volcanics in Queensland as a young lad, it was bloody hard work and most of the routes I did in that era are now considered dangerous or have been retrobolted!

>You and Damo are just trying on your little "trad" hat. I hope you think
>it looks good on you for the moment.

Awesome! Me and Damo are best trad buddies now it appears!

>Have fun on your next sport climb.

I did. I bolted it yesterday!

In summary - I use bolts, I place bolts. I just don't think that somewhere like Frenchmans or Federation needs sport climbs.


IdratherbeclimbingM9

22-Jan-2015
10:41:12 AM

On 22/01/2015 nmonteith wrote:
>In summary - I use bolts, I place bolts. I just don't think that somewhere like Frenchmans or Federation needs sport climbs.

+1


rodw

22-Jan-2015
12:21:03 PM

I don't see the issue of no power drill bolting in the area..seriously who gonna carry that type of gear in there anyway?..its never going to be a place for consumer cragging anyway.

One Day Hero

22-Jan-2015
12:45:15 PM

On 21/01/2015 johny wrote:
>You and Damo are just trying on your little "trad" hat. I hope you think
>it looks good on you for the moment. Have fun on your next sport climb.

Meanwhile, you're "keeping it real" by putting up a shitty traverse at a gridded sport crag, relying on some crappy gear which pops out, but you're "not allowed" to clip the bolt which is 30cm away.......and you film the whole thing and self promote the shit out of yourself. Is that what "trad" is about? :)


IdratherbeclimbingM9

22-Jan-2015
12:50:52 PM

On 22/01/2015 rodw wrote:
>I don't see the issue of no power drill bolting in the area..seriously
>who gonna carry that type of gear in there anyway?..its never going to
>be a place for consumer cragging anyway.

They said that about the Blueys once upon an age ago...
;-)


nmonteith

22-Jan-2015
1:02:21 PM

I predict in 10 years time we will have drones carrying our climbing gear to the crag (shudder).

gfdonc

22-Jan-2015
1:05:38 PM

On 22/01/2015 rodw wrote:
>I don't see the issue of no power drill bolting in the area..seriously
>who gonna carry that type of gear in there anyway?

Good point. Perhaps they should ban elephants as well. Solves the problem of them cracking all that lovely boardwalk.


Eduardo Slabofvic

22-Jan-2015
1:13:22 PM

On 22/01/2015 rodw wrote:
>I don't see the issue of no power drill bolting in the area..seriously
>who gonna carry that type of gear in there anyway?

Did anyone say the same thing about Cerro Torre? Unfortunately, there are plenty of "look at me" wannabes who will do just that.

I, too, doubt it will become the next Nowra, but that doesn't mean the policy isn't reasonable.


ambyeok

22-Jan-2015
1:28:50 PM

I'll weigh in with some gripes. Firstly I think we should ban posters who do the whole copy a line of someones post, write a rebuttal, copy the next line, write a rebuttal. Seems like nit-picking and cheap shoot-downs. I'm looking at you Monteith.
Having said that, I haven't written anything on chockstone that was actually worth reading for years.

Which brings my to my second point (a nit-pick and cheap shoot-down) which is that sport climbing doesn't make the climb safer nor easier, it just makes protecting it a bit easier and increases the chance the gear will hold should you fall off.
Just saying cause the sport climbing is safer mentality gets people hurt.

Is there any good fishing at Frenchmans?


Superstu

22-Jan-2015
2:04:06 PM

On 22/01/2015 nmonteith wrote:
>I predict in 10 years time we will have drones carrying our climbing gear
>to the crag (shudder).

I predict in 10 years time we will all be wearing Honnold(tm) brand anti-gravity backpacks which activate on a sudden rapid descent. At this point the whole bolting debate will be irrelevant and all that will be left to debate will be how to clean up the mess left by the previous generation.


rodw

22-Jan-2015
2:35:51 PM

On 22/01/2015 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:

>They said that about the Blueys once upon an age ago...
>;-)

Lol they were wrong...Blueys access is a bit different though, note though there is a shit ton of rock in the blueys that is just "too far" for sport routes


rodw

22-Jan-2015
2:40:17 PM

On 22/01/2015 Eduardo Slabofvic wrote:

>I, too, doubt it will become the next Nowra, but that doesn't mean the
>policy isn't reasonable.

I actually agree with you, no issue with policy as it kind of gets rid of a grey area in case some huge group sponsored by Red Bull decides to attack the place. Cerrp Torre wasn't exactly just a couple of guys with a drill, it was a mini expedition which is in reality likely to be the only type of group that would seriously consider taking in suck gear to bolt a route.


shiltz

22-Jan-2015
2:56:45 PM

On 22/01/2015 ambyeok wrote:
>I'll weigh in with some gripes. Firstly I think we should ban posters who
>do the whole copy a line of someones post, write a rebuttal, copy the next
>line, write a rebuttal. Seems like nit-picking and cheap shoot-downs. I'm
>looking at you Monteith.
Where's the fun in that ;-)

>Having said that, I haven't written anything on chockstone that was actually
>worth reading for years.
Doesn't mean we can't nit-pick

>Which brings my to my second point (a nit-pick and cheap shoot-down) which
>is that sport climbing doesn't make the climb safer nor easier, it just
>makes protecting it a bit easier and increases the chance the gear will
>hold should you fall off.
I disagree. Sure the upward progression is no harder whether it is solo, top-rope, redpoint, or "trad". But the process of climbing can be significantly harder, especially onsight. Finding stances to place wiggly gear, hanging around while you place it, carrying extra weight... it all makes a difference. On a remote multipitch route I'd say that is amplified even further. Locating a line of well placed ring bolts and clipping them up as you climb requires far less effort (and is safer) than finding and following a natural line with minimal information about where to find placements, how good they'll be, and what size/type of gear they'll take. It definitely raises the bar and as a result there are less people doing it.

>Just saying cause the sport climbing is safer mentality gets people hurt.
I totally agree that sport climbing is not safe and people who think it is get hurt. But I think we agree that a well installed bolt it more likely to hold a fall than a piece of natural gear... so long as you haven't done something really stupid.

>Is there any good fishing at Frenchmans?
Dunno about Frenchmans but the nearby rivers would be good for trout.

At the end of the day it seems that they are trying to avoid two things in WHA:
- Noisy drills
- Sport climbing crags that draw bigger crowds and the accompanying damage that brings
Seems reasonable to me, hopefully they can now focus on the much bigger issues that threaten these areas.


IdratherbeclimbingM9

22-Jan-2015
3:03:54 PM

On 22/01/2015 ambyeok wrote:
>I'll weigh in with some gripes. Firstly I think we should ban posters who
>do the whole copy a line of someones post, write a rebuttal, copy the next
>line, write a rebuttal.

I read them as conversation, as it makes much more sense when con-text is given to replies.

Lol re shiltz's reply to ambyeok, as was tempted to reply in similar manner myself...

wtf? Why is 'con-text' (when written normally), considered suspicious input and not allowing the reply to go through?


Eduardo Slabofvic

22-Jan-2015
3:21:15 PM

On 22/01/2015 rodw wrote:
>Cerrp Torre wasn't exactly just a couple of guys with
>a drill, it was a mini expedition which is in reality likely to be the
>only type of group that would seriously consider taking in suck gear to
>bolt a route.
>

Yeah, I originally wrote something along those lines, but deleted it before posting, helicopters, sponsors, hangers on, product placement, rock climbing stars metamorphosing into soda pop stars, You saw the video, You heard the soundtrack, well now go buy the soft drink. We've created a Jason generation that learns to laugh rather than to abhor the horror


vwills

22-Jan-2015
3:51:55 PM

On 22/01/2015 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>On 22/01/2015 nmonteith wrote:
>>In summary - I use bolts, I place bolts. I just don't think that somewhere
>like Frenchmans or Federation needs sport climbs.
>
>+1

+ 2
You could bolt some 5 star lines at Frenchmans (and federation) I'm sure, but not every area in Tassie/Australia needs bolts, just as not every area needs roads, or easier access for the couch potato, or huts for those that don't like tents. I am totally in favour of wilderness areas being hand drill only (and places like the warrumbungles ) which would make people stop and think for a change rather than zip up a line of bolts because it's relatively easy. As mentioned it's better that climbing is recognised as an activity that can take place.

johny

22-Jan-2015
5:10:13 PM

On 22/01/2015 nmonteith wrote:
>On 21/01/2015 johny wrote:
>>So climbs with bolts arent climbs?

>In summary - I use bolts, I place bolts. I just don't think that somewhere
>like Frenchmans or Federation needs sport climbs.

I admit I was being pedantic about your original statement about bolts. So your against sport routes in frenchmans and feder. Thanks for clearing up your position.

I believe that just because an area is WHA does not instantly mean no bolts. Banning bolts is a reactionary and unrealistic approach. In the same vein, just because bolting is legalized does not mean that everyone is going to run out to federation peak and rap bolt a sport climb.

These new rules have been put up as if there ever was some kind of bolting issue. There never has been. Well there has been the actions of basically one or two people with one or two routes that really pissed off a couple parks guys. Its more a personal vendetta than any kind of objective measure of the climbing community.

I resent the waste of time spent on regulating climbers in Tassie WHA by Parks when it is being blown open for logging and massive tourism development by the current govt. Parks (and I guess you and damo) are worried about literally a handful of bolts in 1.5 million hectares while abbott and co. are just going to chuck the whole state to loggers and eco-tourist billionaires.


JamesMc

22-Jan-2015
6:19:51 PM

Not all of the WHA is remote. I'm sure there is potential say on the little crags overlooking the road to Strathgordon.

The problem I have with "power tools with written permission only" is that it requires parts to have some defendable process or rationale to give or not give authority. If I thought authority was unreasonably withheld, I'd be writing to the minister or ombudsman to complain,

I'd be surprised if Parks are competent to deal with this.


salty crag

22-Jan-2015
6:59:31 PM


Imaclawfan

22-Jan-2015
8:42:57 PM

>>On 22/01/2015 nmonteith wrote:
>>>In summary - I use bolts, I place bolts. I just don't think that somewhere
>>like Frenchmans or Federation needs sport climbs.
>>
>>+1
>+2

On 19/03/2011 nmonteith wrote
>>>Double standards about bolting in Tassie wilderness seems like a real issue. The slow eroding of old school trad crags into sport venues is happening all over Australua. Why is Ben Lomond picked as the one and only crag that should be bolt free?

+3

There are 47 messages in this topic.