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Chockstone Photography
Australian Landscape Photography by Michael Boniwell
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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 1 of 4. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 67
Author
WTF at Point Perpendicular!
Olbert
6-Oct-2014
9:14:36 PM
Edit: Nothing to see here people, put your pitchforks away and douse your torches. These bolts were placed by the military themselves. I can't blame the landowners for doing what they want with their land.

Here is the original post so we can all imagine what could have been an entertaining seven page long thread:

Point Perp is owned by the Australian Defence Force and we, as climbers, are there by their good grace. They are not required to allow climbers to climb - they do so because they see it as a small impact with little risk.

This is why I was so distressed to find the travesty that has occurred at the Light House Area. This is the area that is most visited by tourists - it has heritage and natural significance. On top of that it's just a bloody nice spot to be.

Up until now there has been a mix of trad gear and discreet carrots from which climbers could set up abseil ropes. The carrots had very little impact on the visual environment as they are very small - I know from experience it can be frustratingly hard to find them even when I know where they are!

It was with incredulity that I discovered at the top of Rex Hunts Love Child not one, not two, not three, not five, not eight but ten new bolts of varying varieties. There was four ring bolts and six fixed hangers - all of the larger varieties. Two of the fixed hangers were discreetly placed behind a bush, the rest were all in plain and obvious view of the fence not 10m away. Two of the ring bolts were even placed around two existing carrots! To make it worse all these bolts were within a few metres of each other!

Now, I don't mind convenience - in fact I'm all for convenience. But I am dead against anything that might have the slightest chance of risking our ability to climb at the Point. The ADF do not have to let us climb - they have the option to shut the cliffs to climbing, and hand out fines to people outside of the fenced area. Piss them off and they will ban climbing.

Here are a few quick snaps I took with my phone:


These are four glue in large fixed hangers.


The same four from the other side, the bush at the top left of the photo hides two more.


Rings around carrots.


Same rings with two more rings a couple of metres behind - they are a bit blurry but you can still make them out. You can see how close the fence is behind.


nmonteith
6-Oct-2014
9:19:11 PM
The ADF are the actual people installing all the new anchors at the top of the Lighthouse Area. They run abseil training exercises there on a regular basis. They love installing a squillion redundant anchors as they don't like climber's bolts. They did the same thing above Dogface. To make matters worse one of the Dangerouser Cliffs crew actually CHOPPED some of these official ADF anchors at Point Perp. Now that is a great way to f--- up access!
Olbert
6-Oct-2014
9:58:17 PM
On 6/10/2014 nmonteith wrote:
>The ADF are the actual people installing all the new anchors at the top
>of the Lighthouse Area. They run abseil training exercises there on a regular
>basis. They love installing a squillion redundant anchors as they don't
>like climber's bolts. They did the same thing above Dogface. To make matters
>worse one of the Dangerouser Cliffs crew actually CHOPPED some of these
>official ADF anchors at Point Perp. Now that is a great way to f--- up
>access!

Ha - maybe I should call Damo out for endangering access!
ropedonkey
6-Oct-2014
10:06:03 PM
They have also installed a lot of carrots around the bottom of the climbs as well..
So everyone should do a little research before debolting...
Also due to numpty Abbott the Beecroft range has now moved to "safe base Charlie" if it goes to the next terror alert of wait for it."safe base Delta" there are whispers that it will be closed to public...
One Day Hero
6-Oct-2014
10:57:26 PM
Fuch 'em, pulling bolts out might be a good way to start a dialogue regarding whether it really is ok for the navy to retrobolt whatever they want. If there are defense carrots going in, it's climbers who have the contract. I'd like to know who the sell-out little bitches are.
ropedonkey
7-Oct-2014
5:39:23 AM
I could be wrong but I have seen Mr Hoyle walking around in a sailor suit a few times..
But I put it down to a fancy dress party..
Could be some truth to the stories I'm hearing

nmonteith
7-Oct-2014
10:09:08 AM
On 6/10/2014 One Day Hero wrote:
>Fuch 'em, pulling bolts out might be a good way to start a dialogue regarding
>whether it really is ok for the navy to retrobolt whatever they want.

Forever the diplomat. The bolts that got chopped at the top of the cliff have been noted by the ADF. I reckon if people continue damaging their infrastructure a ban on civilian climbers in the lighthouse area would probably be the next step. By your logic I'm surprised you also haven't removed the new fence, as it's certainly much larger and newer than the original fence. And switched the lighthouse back to gas.

nmonteith
7-Oct-2014
10:26:07 AM
On a side note, in 2010 at least 8 ringbolts were installed on the top of Dogface for a similar reason (mega ADF abseil). They were officially sanctioned by Nat Parks I believe. Then some idiot went and smashed them up with a sledgehammer. Again, not exactly doing climbers any favors in the eyes of the land managers and 'authorities'.
martym
7-Oct-2014
12:37:52 PM
That's pretty impressive bolting for military! I would have expected bright golden chains with a flag indicating where it was... then again they are into camoflaging so well done... even if it is overkill - it's hardly noticeable.

JamesMc
7-Oct-2014
7:30:19 PM
Big deal. At Morialta there are National Parks supplied ring bolts so big you could get your ankle caught in one.
maxdacat
8-Oct-2014
10:14:00 AM
The rings look very nicely done (are these ADF?) but fixed hangers just look stoopid in sandstone. And carrots, they just look fiddly.
jprockbelly
8-Oct-2014
4:09:43 PM
On 6/10/2014 One Day Hero wrote:
>start a dialogue regarding whether it really is ok for the navy to retrobolt whatever they want.

It won't be a dialogue, it will be a monologue, and climber won't be talking. We will be listening to our access being taken away.

Park managers generally view climbers as a problem group of park users. We tend to do a lot of things that they don't like, make paths, stash gear at the crag, shit all over the place etc. On top of this many climbers think they are the authority on what is best for a climbing location, a sort of entitlement mindset.

So when climbers start to impinge on other users (for example by chopping their park approved ring bolts) it is an easy decision for the managers to just ban climbing. It solves a lot of their problems quickly.

One Day Hero
8-Oct-2014
10:35:02 PM
On 8/10/2014 jprockbelly wrote:
>On top of this many climbers
>think they are the authority on what is best for a climbing location, a
>sort of entitlement mindset.
>
Climbers have been the vast majority of visitors to the cliffs at the Point for over 30 years, and were managing it pretty well up until about 2 years ago (when the ring brigade moved in). I think we are a pretty good fuching authority on what is best. Have you dipshits even seen the galvo U-bolts the navy drilled in? Not exactly very smart.

And Neil, you forgot to mention that the navy retrobolts got chopped at the same time that you and your sport-Damo mates were spraying rings all over the place. Yet somehow it was up to the DCA to ask around? Get fuched!

nmonteith
9-Oct-2014
7:53:41 AM
On 8/10/2014 One Day Hero wrote:
>Climbers have been the vast majority of visitors to the cliffs at the
>Point for over 30 years, and were managing it pretty well up until about
>2 years ago (when the ring brigade moved in). I think we are a pretty good
>fuching authority on what is best.

I'd actually refute that point and say fisherman are a lot more prolific than climbers. They certainly get there earlier and stay later!

>Have you dipshits even seen the galvo
>U-bolts the navy drilled in? Not exactly very smart.

So I presume you contacted the Navy and offered your expertise?

>And Neil, you forgot to mention that the navy retrobolts got chopped at
>the same time that you and your sport-Damo mates were spraying rings all
>over the place. Yet somehow it was up to the DCA to ask around? Get fuched!

Yep, I'm sure that will make the ADF feel all ok about you guys chopping their anchors. This totally confirms that you guys have no interest in talking to anyone. Because it wouldn't take more than one phonecall to Rick Phillips or myself to tell you that all those new bolts at the top of the cliff were from the Navy. It was very common knowledge. Obviously common knowledge isn't so common afterall.
OodlesDownHere
9-Oct-2014
8:14:37 AM
Sir monteith, you are the No.1 dude, expecially when surounded by fuchwits like ODH. Good climbers try to climb sports routes without using the bolts. Theres some great vids of this. It's only fools, losers, would-be-if-they-could-be and old weak farts who chop.

Duang Daunk
9-Oct-2014
8:21:33 AM
On 9/10/2014 nmonteith wrote:
>>ODH wrote:
>>And Neil, you forgot to mention that the navy retrobolts got chopped
>at
>>the same time that you and your sport-Damo mates were spraying rings
>all
>>over the place. Yet somehow it was up to the DCA to ask around? Get fuched!
>
>Yep, I'm sure that will make the ADF feel all ok about you guys chopping
>their anchors. This totally confirms that you guys have no interest in
>talking to anyone. Because it wouldn't take more than one phonecall to
>Rick Phillips or myself to tell you that all those new bolts at the top
>of the cliff were from the Navy. It was very common knowledge. Obviously
>common knowledge isn't so common afterall.

I see a straw man here.
At the time the rings were being sprayed would you and other spray bolters have changed your ways simply from dialogue?
Ironic that ADF was collaterally damaged in their own backyard!

rodw
9-Oct-2014
8:28:33 AM
On 9/10/2014 Duang Daunk wrote:

>I see a straw man here.
>At the time the rings were being sprayed would you and other spray bolters
>have changed your ways simply from dialogue?

.....probably not, but ODH and his crew could have worked out which were viable bolt targets for the DCA and keep the feud in-house so to speak...pissing off land managers is the greater evil with far bigger consequences for the area I would think?

Duang Daunk
9-Oct-2014
8:38:36 AM
On 9/10/2014 OodlesDownHere wrote:
>Sir monteith, you are the No.1 dude, expecially when surounded by fuchwits
>like ODH. Good climbers try to climb sports routes without using the bolts.
> Theres some great vids of this. It's only fools, losers, would-be-if-they-could-be
>and old weak farts who chop.

ODH, you don't have to be so harsh on yourself.

Oh and re your great vids, the visual pollution of uneccessary bolts in them detracted from the experience for me.
jprockbelly
9-Oct-2014
9:31:45 AM
On 8/10/2014 One Day Hero wrote:
>I think we are a pretty good
>fuching authority on what is best.

Best for who? Best for climbers maybe, although the chat around here would indicate that you don't speak for the majority.

>Climbers have been the vast majority of visitors to the cliffs at the Point for over 30 years

So what? The primary user of a national park is the environment. They are nature reserves, not your local playground. Climbing *does* impact the environment, if climbing were banned the health of the park would improve. We all need to be very mindful of this if we want to continue to have access.

Have a little perspective on things..... Just because you feel strongly about something it doesn't mean you have any authority on it.

nmonteith
9-Oct-2014
9:45:27 AM
On 9/10/2014 Duang Daunk wrote:
>I see a straw man here.
>At the time the rings were being sprayed would you and other spray bolters
>have changed your ways simply from dialogue?

Yes. Done. I did quite a few new routes on a mix of trad and bolts last year after the sport bolting kerfuffle.

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There are 67 messages in this topic.

 

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