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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 2 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 36
Author
Arapiles revisited
ARidgley
17-Sep-2014
4:32:06 PM
I've been tossing up the descent order for the abseils. I think the best method of all is to connect her to the rope first, I connect below her and abseil, then provide her with a bottom belay. It covers all bases.
kieranl
17-Sep-2014
4:42:59 PM
There are three ways off the top, 2 double-rope rap descents down Kingdom Come or Dazed and Confused and the scramble with short raps descent via French Crack. They are all memorable in their own ways.
jrc
17-Sep-2014
5:03:59 PM
I had the then 10 y.o. Michael go down that Pharos rap on one rope whilst belayed on the other by me. Seemed to work OK. You can ask him next week.
ARidgley
17-Sep-2014
8:09:09 PM
Thats true Cliff. It's worthy of consideration.

Though I may have an equally tough time getting to her if she's on a tight belay rope and tight abseil rope. Down prussicking on prussick knots is not so easy. Being on the ground can actually be an advantage.

Lowering then abseiling is another option, but she will learn nothing from that.
Will_P
18-Sep-2014
11:54:13 AM
I came down that way on Sunday, using a single rope for the first time (I’ve previously gone straight to the ground from the top using doubles). Assuming you have a 60m rope, it’ll be way easier (and far less stressful) to stop at the DBB on Kingdom Come, rather than the one lower down (?Trojan) as I did – you’ve gotta get up some momentum and swing in and right, clip the anchor, then settle yourself on a very small sloping ledge (room for one person only). Stopping at the KC anchor is far less exposed.
gfdonc
18-Sep-2014
9:56:33 PM
As I implied, you should let her go first, belayed from the top. Then you're within reach for confidence/checking/giving a gentle push. If you first rap to the bottom, your options if anything isn't working are very limited.

pedro.c
19-Sep-2014
7:34:19 AM
I climbed The Shroud last Easter with my kids and wife. I remember trying frantically to find those rap anchors while the sun was going down. There was a couple who'd just finished Lamplighter setting up for the rap, we joined ropes and they rapped off simultaneously. One on each side. It looked like fun and you can talk your daughter down if needed. My kids love the abseiling but I still prefer to lower the 9 year old myself on difficult or longer raps. She's light and can't lift the 50-60m of rope to feed through the ATC.

Plenty of rappelling advice on this other thread but I didn't see anything on simultaneous abseiling:

http://www.chockstone.org/Forum/Forum.asp?Action=DisplayTopic&ForumID=1&MessageID=123033&Replies=86&PagePos=0&Sort=#NewPost
Wendy
19-Sep-2014
9:46:41 AM
Simul rapping is for yahoos! Really, I almost never do it, I don't think the small amount of saved time is worth the increased risk. Besides, have you tried rapping on a single 7.8?

Belaying from the top is definitely the safest way. I thread the anchors, tied an alpine butterflying the ropes, toss one down as the rap rope and use the other as the belay rope. You are there to talk the person over the edge which is the hardest bit, and a bit of careful rope tossing should minimise the risk of them having tangles to deal with on the way down. If anything goes wrong, you are in a much better place to initiate a rescue. If you have to, you can take them on the top rope, get them to let go of the rap rope, pull hair out or whatever, even lower them to the ground if need be. What are you going to do belaying from the ground if they are unable to commit to getting on the abseil at the top? Or get their hair or clothes caught in the belay device?

The front descent is 2 short abseils and a scramble if you only have a single rope and I would do that over either of the big raps if you don't have doubles. Yes, you can swing into the lower anchors on both, but it isn't a nice simple exercise to do with a beginner when you don't have to and why make your life any more difficult? Good experiences will bring her back again, which I'm sure you would like to happen!
kieranl
19-Sep-2014
10:17:55 AM
Another attraction of the front descent, apart from only needing one rope, is that you get to crawl through a window in the cliff to get to the second rap. I really enjoy that sort of stuff.
prb
19-Sep-2014
10:36:44 AM
It seems to me that several practice abseils off a big boulder, the Plaque or maybe Fang Buttress would be useful before you find yourselves on top of the Pharos.
ARidgley
19-Sep-2014
11:02:40 AM
On 19/09/2014 prb wrote:
>It seems to me that several practice abseils off a big boulder, the Plaque
>or maybe Fang Buttress would be useful before you find yourselves on top
>of the Pharos.

Yes prb. We will of course be doing that. We will spend quite a few days cragging before taking on any two pitch stuff, let alone multi-pitch.
jrc
19-Sep-2014
11:27:33 AM
Come on Wendy simul rap is the only way to get off things like the torpedo or Leviathan as a couple of us tried once at Buffo. Mind you that was in the 70s...i'd be terrified doing it off the Pharos! Having read Keiran's line about the rock window im going to have to do some Pharos routes next week just to experience that feature
Wendy
19-Sep-2014
12:48:29 PM
The weather still looks amazing for sun-wed. I'm bloody excited about the weather. You guys should have a great trip.

pedro.c
19-Sep-2014
3:22:11 PM
On 19/09/2014 Wendy wrote:
>Simul rapping is for yahoos!

The couple I was referring to were having a kiss when we crashed their party. I think she'd just finished the roof at the end of lamplighter and blamed him for the terror she endured. They were making up when I found them. The simul rap seemed to be more romance than yahooing.
>
>Belaying from the top is definitely the safest way. I thread the anchors,
>tied an alpine butterflying the ropes, toss one down as the rap rope and
>use the other as the belay rope.

Good advice. Thanks

You are there to talk the person over
>the edge which is the hardest bit, and a bit of careful rope tossing should
>minimise the risk of them having tangles to deal with on the way down.
>If anything goes wrong, you are in a much better place to initiate a rescue.
>If you have to, you can take them on the top rope, get them to let go of
>the rap rope, pull hair out or whatever, even lower them to the ground
>if need be. What are you going to do belaying from the ground if they are
>unable to commit to getting on the abseil at the top? Or get their hair
>or clothes caught in the belay device?

The young bloke got that web of skin between his thumb and forefinger caught in his ATC once and these days we make sure little girls long hair gets tied back. This method you've suggested would've helped on both these occasions.

>
>The front descent is 2 short abseils and a scramble if you only have a
>single rope and I would do that over either of the big raps if you don't
>have doubles.

Couldn't find it and the knot of anxiety I had in my guts was too much for scrambling around up there, at dusk with kiddies.

Good experiences will bring
>her back again, which I'm sure you would like to happen!


ajfclark
19-Sep-2014
4:08:55 PM
Along with long hair, hoodie cords are another thing to watch out for. No where near as painful, but can still be a hassle to sort out.
ARidgley
19-Sep-2014
4:29:11 PM
A friend of mine came very close to dying in Claustral Canyon due to a loose fitting T-Shirt.

 Page 2 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 36
There are 36 messages in this topic.

 

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