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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

Author
Ethics: Removing old aid gear to make sport climbs
hotgemini
8/03/2013
4:31:27 PM
Was chatting with some climbing partners of mine and some discussion came up over a route and then grew into a broader discussion of the evolution of climbing ethics.

Now the route in question originally had a number of aid moves, in particular a bolt ladder which makes up the bulk of one pitch.

Now, times have moved on and the bolt ladder pitch goes free at something like 18-21, making it the crux pitch of a climb otherwise graded 11... (note: not 11 A1)

Anyway, here are the ethical questions;
1) Now that the pitch has been freed, do you remove the bolt ladder?
2) If not, what do you do about the state of the bolts, given that 6.5 years ago they looked like this;





Now, for me I think bolt for bolt but perhaps with camoed 3/8 SSGICs, to keep the options open for someone wishing to aid the pitch, but without going to the extent of a fixed hanger or ring every 60cm.

-Adam.
dalai
8/03/2013
4:55:51 PM
Is there a defined section that would be free crux of is the grade for the whole pitch?

Personally I would suggest times have moved on and replace only with enough bolts to adequately protect the free route. If there is a crux section - leave a bolt there so that the leader can French free that section to keep the grade closer in keeping with the rest of the route?

E. Wells
8/03/2013
5:06:39 PM
So what you propose is a rebolt, but with just as many bolts as already exist in its aid-ladder state as to not rob that style of ascent from someone, using glue in stainless steel (may as well used 316) hex head machine bolts ? Bloody ridiculous HG, seriously grow a brain, WTF!! And by the way, all the pussy sport climbers that drive too fast in my neighborhood on they're way home from some ring clipping latte sipping bro fest at a crag named after a little aromatic pink flower, well....you might sqaush a blue tongue or somethin so....slow down or I'll.......tell. Someone.
Macca?
Neil?
I dunno.

davidn
8/03/2013
6:09:13 PM
On 8/03/2013 E. Wells wrote:
> ...drive too fast in my neighborhood on they're

Their.

I only really posted that so I could be involved in Macca's conspiracy.

But uh... is a grade 11 bolt ladder really worthwhile? Why not a via ferrata? Or just put a few batman belts with fireable skyhooks at the bottom.
hotgemini
8/03/2013
6:56:22 PM
On 8/03/2013 davidn wrote:
>On 8/03/2013 E. Wells wrote:
>> ...drive too fast in my neighborhood on they're
>
>Their.
>
>I only really posted that so I could be involved in Macca's conspiracy.
>
>But uh... is a grade 11 bolt ladder really worthwhile? Why not a via
>ferrata? Or just put a few batman belts with fireable skyhooks at the
>bottom.


The grade 11 bit was more of a commentary on the grading of this climb, it goes at something like 15 M1 or free at 21. In every guide as an 11 for reasons of history.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
18/08/2014
9:49:02 PM
On 8/03/2013 dalai wrote:
>Personally I would suggest times have moved on and replace only with enough
>bolts to adequately protect the free route. If there is a crux section
>- leave a bolt there so that the leader can French free that section to
>keep the grade closer in keeping with the rest of the route?

I agree with dalai, as 60 cm spacing is over-bolted - even for aid!
Plus there is a possibility(?) that it may still go as aid by using todays clean-aid gear at a higher aid grade.

I wouldn't remove the bolt ladder, but would only replace in the manner dalai suggested, enough (if they need it) to protect for the free version.

On 8/03/2013 hotgemini wrote:
>Anyway, here are the ethical questions;
>1) Now that the pitch has been freed, do you remove the bolt ladder?
>2) If not, what do you do about the state of the bolts, given that 6.5
>years ago they looked like this;
>
>(snip)
>Now, for me I think bolt for bolt but perhaps with camoed 3/8 SSGICs,
>to keep the options open for someone wishing to aid the pitch, but without
>going to the extent of a fixed hanger or ring every 60cm.
>
>-Adam.

macey
18/08/2014
11:46:45 PM
On 8/03/2013 E. Wells wrote:
>So what you propose is a rebolt, but with just as many bolts as already
>exist in its aid-ladder state as to not rob that style of ascent from someone,
>using glue in stainless steel (may as well used 316) hex head machine bolts
>? Bloody ridiculous HG, seriously grow a brain, WTF!! And by the way, all
>the pussy sport climbers that drive too fast in my neighborhood on they're
>way home from some ring clipping latte sipping bro fest at a crag named
>after a little aromatic pink flower, well....you might sqaush a blue tongue
>or somethin so....slow down or I'll.......tell. Someone.
>Macca?
>Neil?
>I dunno.
>
This attitude and blatant disrespect for others is neither appreciated or necessary mate. Either pull your head in or find another sport.

E. Wells
19/08/2014
6:26:52 AM
Just checkin out the local Ultimate Frisbee scene now. Thanks for your advice Macey , love you bro.

nmonteith
19/08/2014
8:47:51 AM
What is the name and location of this route? The style of a route and rebolting ethic differs greatly depending on the location and general history of the route. If a route stills gets a majority of its ascents via aid then it makes sense to make it still aidable. Not sure why people are suggesting using hangerless bolts instead of FHs or rings when the original bolts appear to be FHs. I've rebolted one route like this - Seventh Pillar on Taipan Wall. What I did is replace every 4th aid bolt with a new bolt, and left the cool original aid bolts in place. That way aiding it still has the historical feel but you won't die if all the 50 year old bolts snap off.
hotgemini
19/08/2014
11:00:18 AM
Sorry to disappoint the recent burst of posters in this thread, but this whole thread was just made to goad Macca while he was locked out of the safercliffs forum.


IdratherbeclimbingM9
19/08/2014
11:28:18 AM
On 19/08/2014 hotgemini wrote:
>Sorry to disappoint the recent burst of posters in this thread, but this
>whole thread was just made to goad Macca while he was locked out of the
>safercliffs forum.
>
Obviously a good troll that even caught a Mod(?), as it would appear that it has been moved from there, but nevertheless, the hypothetical question posed is a suitable distraction for some of us in general discussion!
;-)
climberman
19/08/2014
4:08:45 PM
I think we should just remove old aid climbers to make sport climbs.

Macciza
19/08/2014
5:12:30 PM
I think we should remove the aids from sport climbs . . .

There are 13 messages in this topic.

 

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