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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 1 of 5. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 93
Author
Hardest Australian Trad Onsight
.
27/07/2004
3:19:19 PM
.

Ell
27/07/2004
3:46:07 PM
I reckon Patrick Turner would be up there as well.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
27/07/2004
3:48:10 PM
If you work something 'onsight' it is obviously not a 'flash', but at what point do you lose the onsight?
Case in point being Steve Monks and the Buffalo Nth Wall triptyche of (X3);
Ozy Original/Ozy Direct/Lord Gumtree-Holden Caulfield.
If not the hardest then certainly the most sustained for their grades due to length of climb!


WM
27/07/2004
5:59:05 PM
talking of what counts as an onsight: Kevin Lindorff's chockstone interview credits him with an onsight FA of Flange Desire 27 at Frog - which included downclimbing 15m+ from the crux, going home to sleep, coming back the next day and then continuing the "onsight"

surely "on sight" suggest some immediacy of the ascent.... can it include the next day?

nmonteith
27/07/2004
6:06:36 PM
onsight just means doing it first try without falling onto the rope/resting and without any beta. thus this concept - if you are sketchy and are going to blow the first moves on the onsight then let the belayer give you heaps of slack thus letting you deck out - thus saving the 'onsight' as you didn't weight the rope!!! you might brake your ankles but you still keep the glory of the potential onsight....

phil_nev
27/07/2004
10:35:24 PM
From memory Ben heason onsighted Contra Arms pump on sandinista wall.... Could be wrong though.

Trad onsighting in the high 20's is deffinitly for people with a little bit of tallent... And maybe a few loose marbles. ;)

Phil
mikl law
27/07/2004
11:54:37 PM
Edward frillyparts is right, onsight is onsight, I reckon downclimbing shows you've got style too.

Now some opinions from someone who gave up trad in 1980, but back there briefly:-I think knowing the protection (by hearsay or inspection) may make more of a differnce to a hard trad repeat than knowing the moves to hard sport.

Trad routes vary a lot too, many hard things at araps and gramps have good gear, while some of the wire fiddling horrors at Frog waste a lot more time
gfdonc
28/07/2004
11:21:45 AM
Actually I thought thecrag.com or 8a.nu defined onsight as excluding downclimbing.
Meaning if you've climbed then downclimbed parts then you got beta which can be used on the final assault.
Which I thought was unfair in any case. I like the 'bottom up, no weighting pro' definition.


nmonteith
28/07/2004
12:05:17 PM
so you can't ever feel a hold - then back down one move to for a rest??? Does that mean if you a touch a piece of rock thinking it s a hold - then you MUST pull on it - even if its a red herring? blah - climbing is so contrived sometimes.....

nmonteith
28/07/2004
12:24:25 PM
On 27/07/2004 phil_nev wrote:
>From memory Ben heason onsighted Contra Arms pump on sandinista wall....
>Could be wrong though.
>

Contra is a semi-sport route - with the crux protected by bolts.

HEX
28/07/2004
12:50:00 PM
Seems to me that the issue here is ONSIGHTFLASH ascents :

Some dude rocks-up to Araps ; grabs his/her boots,rope,trad-rack,chalk-bag ; walks up a gully ; goes " sak-ra-blur !!! --- what is dis magnificent line ?! " ; a bumbly ,bouldering near-by , says " I'll giveya' belay, dude --- all I know is that it's called Cobwebs and it's about USA 5.12d --- go for it !"

Dude then climbs smoothly, confidently, all the way to the top, bearly stopping to place the occasional runner...

Chalk-marks are par for the course these days...

Perhaps the issues should be ' hardest FIRST ASCENT onsightflash ...

De Gualles Nose(Carrigan,Moorhead,1983), might be 'only' 23, but the height/exposure...

Luv, HEX

----------------------------------------------
Good stuff , Cube-arse ! ; Now do you or Neil or Pheil know weather ' RAPTURES ' is in fact the route that Carrigan originally referred to as INTO THE MORGE (25 ),in ' the glass-house mountains' ?... he gave it a very similar, horrific, route description...
--------------------------------------------
Neil --- it was in the mags of the 1980s --- somewhere...

Rick should know --- another qu' for Philby to ask...

Into the morgUe , I mean --- Very fitting ! --- Kim thought so too...
---------------------------------------------
Indeed Cube-arse ! --- post traumatic stress disorder tends to blur the details ! --- Kim was VERY lucky/skilled not to get himself killed...; ask him again--- he might have been blocking it from his consciousness...
gfdonc
28/07/2004
1:54:44 PM
On 28/07/2004 nmonteith wrote:
>Contra is a semi-sport route - with the crux protected by bolts.

This forum is yet to define "sport-route" for my satisfaction ..
- Steve
who actually meant "for" and not "to".


manacubus
28/07/2004
2:08:40 PM
Not to hijack the thread, but as for onsight ground-up trad first ascents...

Flange Desire (27) - what a great achievement.

Some routes on East Face of Crookneck are all trad, up to grade 24, and established onsight and ground-up. Very serious.

Even more serious is Raptures on Tibro (Carrigan). All trad, extremely serious outing at grade 24 with deathfall potential. Established onsight, ground-up. 10m out off a #0 RP, Kim thought he was going to die. Sounds fun.

What else?

nmonteith
28/07/2004
2:25:27 PM
On 28/07/2004 HEX wrote:
Now do you or Neil or Pheil know weather '
>RAPTURES ' is in fact the route that Carrigan originally referred to as
>INTO THE MORGE (25 ),in ' the glass-house mountains' ?... he gave it a
>very similar, horrific, route description...

I have never heard of that route Hex and i helped write the G-House guidebook. Where is the info from?

manacubus
28/07/2004
2:43:20 PM
I've spoken to Kim about Raptures. He never mentioned "Into The Morgue", however, he was pretty sketchy on the info regardless.

Pei
28/07/2004
9:57:56 PM
On 27/07/2004 Ell wrote:
>I reckon Patrick Turner would be up there as well.

In ROCK no 54 it says Pat flashed Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade (26) at Kalbarri putting all gear in on lead.
onsight
28/07/2004
11:21:19 PM
Re defining “onsight”
On 28/07/2004 gfdonc wrote:
> I like the 'bottom up, no weighting
>pro' definition.

I agree, I think down-climbing is fine (it’s just not allowed in comps), and so is coming back another day. “No beta” is the main point. Chalks fine, fact of life really. (IMO)

Re Austs hardest:
Ben is a Welshman, so that might be stretching the definition of “Australian” a little bit… (if that’s what the question was).

On 28/07/2004 nmonteith wrote:
>Contra is a semi-sport route - with the crux protected by bolts.
Anyway, Ben did do this onsight - I do believe. I was talking w him about it last month and he said it was one of his best leads ever. He said placing a crucial cam is “blind” when onsight, and because he couldn’t get it in he was looking at ground-fall from 10-12 metres. He had little choice but to go on. Not something you’d expect on a sport route.

On 28/07/2004 HEX wrote:
> all I know is that it's called Cobwebs and it's about USA 5.12d ---
>go for it !" > Dude then climbs smoothly, confidently, all the way to the top, bearly
>stopping to place the occasional runner...

Is that Steve McClure you’re referring to?

> De Gualles Nose(Carrigan,Moorhead,1983), might be 'only' 23, but the
>height/exposure...

Yes, that’s a really good point. If that the one Dave Jones and Gordon Poultney repeated then I think they said it was run-out to buggery too. It's way up on my list of "impressive" (FA and the repeat).

HB surely must be a contender (not sure what route though). Monksy? Dave Jones? Pat is doing really great stuff...
WM
29/07/2004
8:37:59 AM
In the theme of De Gaulles Nose: anyone know what style Carrigan/Law/Moorhead put up Cracked Pane (300m 24) on Bluff Mtn in the Warrumbungles? Or Carrigan/Moorhead on For Starters (320m 23)? I am pretty sure FS at least has had an onsight repeat.

As for coming back the next day to complete an onsight - my issue is purely from a 'linguistic' point of view - I just think its stretching the meaning of the words! I always understood "onsight" had a pretty straightforward meaning, ie, "upon first seeing the route". That says to me there must some immediacy of the ascent, so a multi-day 'onsight' doesn't fit.

PS: IMO downclimbing to rests is fine, and yes that includes downclimbing to the ground.
PPS: Flange Desire is a bloody awesome FA regardless.

HEX
29/07/2004
6:20:33 PM
Another one...

' ..." The most enjoyable style of climbing is doing new routes completely on-sight, just ambling to the bottom of a cliff--- no abseil inspection or top-rope rehearsal, and just climbing it. " Carrigan cites Coronary Country (26) at Mt Rosea in Victoria's Grampians, an M7 aid route which he freed on sight --- placing the gear on lead --- as one of his most satisfying climbs ever...' (Rock)

Neil --- you're '...thinking of a different roote...', because the 'chicks thread activated your Freudian gland...

nmonteith
30/07/2004
9:27:40 AM
Does Coronary Country have a stack of fixed pins at the crux? or am i thinking of a different route...

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There are 93 messages in this topic.

 

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