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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 5 of 10. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 100 | 101 to 120 | 121 to 140 | 141 to 160 | 161 to 180 | 181 to 191
Author
Vic Parks Camping Fee Proposal

Phil_nev
10/11/2013
3:13:35 PM
One things for sure, regular visitors to the area will source other areas to camp, eg: more secret bush camps, new tracks and all the associated things that come with it. pretty sure parks would like to avoid this at all costs but it will happen.

I always clean up after myself, and would try to keep impact to a minimum, but the $$$ spoken about here is over the top and I certainly would not pay that sum for a drop sunny in an asbestos ridden dust bowl.
AW
10/11/2013
5:55:44 PM
I second a vehement and unorthodox protest to these outrageous fee increases. I am already against the current Araps fee increase (and the fine if you don't pay - a $180/person fine! Preposterous!).

Let's finally tell Parks Vic we're unhappy with their services. We're pass the point of round table negotiations and polite debate. It's obvious that they are just sneakily increasing prices and giving the impression that they are listening. Let's become more vocal about our annoyance and not let them continue!
neverclimbed32
12/11/2013
1:49:16 PM
You can get a run out deal on a cruise ship for about $100 night per person which includes all the comforts of the Happy Wanderer, plus entertainment and all meals etc and they even get a midget to wipe your arse!
All of a sudden, taking the family camping just got to expensive.
I'm going stealth from now on.
How are they going to police that?
kieranl
12/11/2013
2:17:06 PM
On 12/11/2013 neverclimbed32 wrote:
>I'm going stealth from now on.
>How are they going to police that?
Employ more Protective Service Officers?
NEVERCLIMBED32
12/11/2013
2:25:49 PM
The Farmyard
Nestled between the North and South Jawbones, the Farmyard is a hike-in camping area for those wishing to hike and camp along the range. There are no toilet or other facilites. Campfires are prohibited so hikers need to bring their own campstove. Drinking water should be carried in as the supply from Jawbones Creek (approx. 100m east of the camping area) is unreliable. Hikers using Jawbones Creek should know how to make untreated water safe for drinking. Individual sites are not reserved; please select your campsite(s) within the camping area on arrival.

So just to be clear that's.......
No toilet
No water
No fires
And all for the low price of $19.80
No worries
patto
12/11/2013
2:42:18 PM
Considering that the Main Yarra Trail near the Burnley Bouldering area is managed by Parks Victoria I wonder how much they will start charging the homeless guy who sleeps under the bridge.

Considering that 'camp-site' has:
-shelter
-river side location
-nearby toilets & running water
-good access and transport options
kieranl
12/11/2013
2:59:38 PM
On 12/11/2013 NEVERCLIMBED32 wrote:
>The Farmyard
>Nestled between the North and South Jawbones, the Farmyard is a hike-in
>camping area for those wishing to hike and camp along the range. There
>are no toilet or other facilites. Campfires are prohibited so hikers need
>to bring their own campstove. Drinking water should be carried in as the
>supply from Jawbones Creek (approx. 100m east of the camping area) is unreliable.
>Hikers using Jawbones Creek should know how to make untreated water safe
>for drinking. Individual sites are not reserved; please select your campsite(s)
>within the camping area on arrival.
>
>So just to be clear that's.......
>No toilet
>No water
>No fires
>And all for the low price of $19.80
>No worries

So, put that in your submission to Parks. How much will your submission count? Probably not a lot, the same as mine. But posts on this forum, or others, count for precisely zip.
I worry that people vent here and feel that they've done something. Well you haven't, unless you're using it to clarify your thoughts, get others comments etc.

On 10/11/2013 AW wrote:
>I second a vehement and unorthodox protest to these outrageous fee increases.
>I am already against the current Araps fee increase (and the fine if you
>don't pay - a $180/person fine! Preposterous!).

I have no idea what you mean by vehement and unorthodox protest but a good place to start is to lodge a vehement and possibly unorthodox submission.

There's a saying "the world is run by those who turn up". If you put in a submission, be it ever so brief, then you have turned up.
christophermoore
12/11/2013
3:26:42 PM
Just put in my submission. Feel free to copy:

------

I would like to register my objection to the proposed camping fee increases. They are exorbitant, totally out of line with the fees charged in other areas/states, and would act to discourage people from camping.

They move the fee burden completely onto those who stay overnight, ignoring day visitors. The fee structure is also cumbersome - a per-person fee would be much simpler.

The proposed fees are even high at the lower end of the scale, where there are minimal facilities being provided. This is especially so in the case of bush camping, where no facilities at all are being used. This should not attract a charge.

Furthermore, the costs of collecting these fees are extremely high compared to the income they'll generate. It is simply not worth it.
NEVERCLIMBED32
12/11/2013
4:30:59 PM
On 12/11/2013 kieranl wrote:
>On 12/11/2013 NEVERCLIMBED32 wrote:
>>The Farmyard.........blah blah blah

>So, put that in your submission to Parks. How much will your submission
>count? Probably not a lot, the same as mine. But posts on this forum, or
>others, count for precisely zip.
>I worry that people vent here and feel that they've done something. Well
>you haven't, unless you're using it to clarify your thoughts, get others
>comments etc.

>There's a saying "the world is run by those who turn up". If you put in
>a submission, be it ever so brief, then you have turned up.

Thanks Kieran. Just hoping that someone will point out to me that I am wrong I guess.
Will defiantly be putting in a submission on this one.
FWIW, I am planning a trip to the Prom in December. A site at Tidal River is @$40/night for six people or we can carry all our gear into Refuge Cove and camp for @$13pp/nightx 6 people=@$78/night. WTF.
They also charge the adult rate for any kid 13 and over and then in the next paragraph state that parents are to be responsible for their children at all times. If they want to charge the adult rate for my 13yo, HE CAN DO WHATEVER THE FUNK HE WHATS.

Seriously though, I feel sorry for the parks staff that will be directed to enforce this. All the ones I've ever met do a magnificent job with minimal resources and on a pretty meager salary. To have their jobs rebranded as "Bush PSO's" just adds insult to injury.
gfdonc
12/11/2013
4:31:19 PM
On 12/11/2013 patto wrote:
>Considering that the Main Yarra Trail near the Burnley Bouldering area
>is managed by Parks Victoria I wonder how much they will start charging
>the homeless guy who sleeps under the bridge.

He's not homeless, he has a 24x365 site booking!

sbm
12/11/2013
4:44:08 PM
Submission sent. I'll print it off and post it when I get a chance to make sure. Being in NSW I don't have any MP's to hassle sorry.
kieranl
12/11/2013
4:54:50 PM
On 12/11/2013 NEVERCLIMBED32 wrote:
>Seriously though, I feel sorry for the parks staff that will be directed
>to enforce this. All the ones I've ever met do a magnificent job with minimal
>resources and on a pretty meager salary. To have their jobs rebranded as
>"Bush PSO's" just adds insult to injury.
Yes, I was chatting to someone from parks who complained of having a sore head from bashing it against the wall after having to attend a briefing on this stuff.

Sabu
Online Now
12/11/2013
10:14:40 PM
I just read that they're proposing to introduce fees for a lot of other parks, including the Alpine National Park. Who here wants to pay for camping on Feathertop or Bogong? Not me. Submission emailed.

kieranl
12/11/2013
10:16:53 PM
On 12/11/2013 Sabu wrote:
>I just read that they're proposing to introduce fees for a lot of other
>parks, including the Alpine National Park. Who here wants to pay for camping
>on Feathertop or Bogong? Not me. Submission emailed.
>
>
Yes. It is for all National and State Parks.
patto
12/11/2013
11:06:47 PM
On 28/10/2013 kieranl wrote:
>The definition of a "high"-serviced area is "Some showers, Partially serviced,
>regular ranger patrols, mostly septic/sewer toilets, mostly designated
>sites, booking service, some drinking water, unique location". Apart from
>the limited water supply, the complete absence of septic/sewer toilets
>rules Stapylton out of that category.

But don't forget the featured asbestos at Stapylton, which will give you an experience that will stay with you for the rest of your life!

;-)
mbrooks
13/11/2013
5:22:17 AM
lol Patto and you have to pay for that experience!
neverclimbed32
13/11/2013
9:45:44 PM
kieran. Thanks for the heads up on this. I like many others was completely unaware.
I have passed the message on through the MTB community and cut and paste freely from this forum to expedite the process.
The RIS also notes:-
In the future, the Government will introduce a
camping pass for all other camping not requiring
a camping permit. Camping fees will also be
introduced for forests and other areas of public
land to ensure camping across all public land is
sustainable.
So that's not just Stapleton and Catani et al but every little out of the way place that you ever stopped to rest your weary head or clear your mind. WTF!
kieranl
13/11/2013
10:31:48 PM
I've been re-working my submission to make the fairness issue central. The proposal makes much of the unfairness of campers not paying the cost of their use but if there's no general principle of cost recovery from users, especially from the largest user base, day visitors, then it isn't an issue of fairness, just a policy decision as to which user-base to charge. It's actually inherently unfair to charge campers for cost-recovery when that principle isn't applied to all user classes.
So, any argument in the proposal based on "fairness" and "equity" is invalid. The policy decision is to target campers for cost-recovery and all of the parameters about the level of fees are purely arbitrary choices, as there is no general principle underlying the decision. The absence of principle and arbitrariness are evident in both the campground classifications and the fee levels of the preferred option.

If it seems a bit odd that I'm still working on my submission - it takes me ages to work these things through into something vaguely coherent.

P.S. Anyone got any contacts in the hunting and fishing community? Would be good to get them involved - that would be an unlikely alliance :)
patto
13/11/2013
11:05:59 PM
I believe unlike what some alluded to earlier, it is only about cost recover of the cost of providing the accommodation. (See section 4.2 if you have any doubt.) So if they have their sums right then overnight campers would not be subsidising day visitors.

Still it seems a little absurd to charge me $30 for me to pitch a tent on some grass in the high plains.

JamesMc
14/11/2013
3:12:18 AM
It's worth remembering that this proposal will be from government, not the bureaucracy. You should send a copy of your submission to your local member and their opponent and ask "What are YOU going to do to stop this to earn my vote next November?"

The only thing that matters more to a politician than cutting costs is winning votes.

JamesMc

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There are 191 messages in this topic.

 

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