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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 1 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 22
Author
New Scary Route at Stacks Bluff
tastrad
11/03/2014
10:03:06 AM
Gerry Narkowicz and Ingvar Lidman have done a major new route at Stacks Bluff at the southern end of Ben Lomond.called `Falling Off The Edge Of The World, 125m (23). While not a particularly difficult climb in terms of grading, it will pose a good challenge for any repeat ascensionists with the runouts and route finding through some very unlikely territory for the grade. See this link for topo and route description, and also an essay discussing headpoint style on potentially dangerous climbs http://climbtasmania.com.au/blogs/news

Pat
11/03/2014
12:22:02 PM
Looks amazing Gerry and an interesting post about the style that was informative. Out of interest before the traverse, do you think that there might be a direct through the roof or is that space cadet territory?
Tastrad
11/03/2014
12:25:51 PM
I checked it out - you could go through the roof then direct up the face for another 15m of face climbing with a few tiny wires - space cadet territory or a 26+ climber with big balls

Macciza
11/03/2014
1:40:54 PM
Congrats on a job well done, both in the climb and in the explanation....
I fully understand and support where you are coming from in all this ....
I certainly realise the difficult ethical decisions in establishing this sort of stuff but agree that sometimes sanity should prevail on the first ascent. Of course there are similar ethical dilemmas for repeat ascentionists - yes they can do similar preinspection or they can gun for the onsight , their choice... More routes like this are needed ....

Thank god that you got there before some sport bolter who would have rap inspected, rehearsed it etc and then still put rings every two metres to sanitise the route into a 'classic' consumer route ....
drdeviousii
12/03/2014
11:21:20 AM
you rap inspected it, cleaned it, rehearsed it multiple times, ticked placements, racked gear in order, then say it was done in legitimate trad style!!!!!! NOICE one Gez, most people call that shite a failed sports route.

I know I know, you don't want bolts at Lomond, but seriously that shite is just a fking wank. Any repeat will be in your sports-style, no-one is ever going to do it ground up so why did you even bother writing it up other that to pad your ego??!?

drdeviousii
12/03/2014
11:23:59 AM
On 11/03/2014 Macciza wrote:
>Thank god that you got there before some sport bolter who would have rap
>inspected, rehearsed it etc

OI MACCA, did you miss the part where he said he did infact rap inspect, clean & rehearse it????
Tastrad
12/03/2014
12:12:01 PM
I write the routes up because I am a guidebook author, and it is important to record history so that history is not rewritten and old climbs are not claimed, retrobolted, renamed, as has happened a few times down here in the past. So what would be an acceptable style in your opinion? Say you had the opportunity and willingness to do a new route at Stacks Bluff. Its 125m high, one and half hour steep uphill walk plus a scree slope. Its an obvious, beautiful line but typically on dolerite faces, there are many huge loose rocks, and the cracks are full of black moss, and from the ground alot of it looks blank and unprotected. What would be your approach to doing the first ascent?

nmonteith
12/03/2014
12:24:31 PM
I like your honesty Gerry. I'm quite agreeable in the style you did these routes because of the location - long walk-in, remote, alpine, Tassie etc. They probably won't get repeated more than once a decade (if ever) but it's good to have some dream routes out there. There is something a bit fun about having to re-unearth some of these style routes to do a repeat decades after they filled up with moss and dirt again! I wouldn't be such a fan of this style if it was near a road, next to other bolted routes or just a choss heap - that would feel contrived.

It's good to know that Australia can still produce some long and magnificent new routes to those still hunting!

phillipivan
12/03/2014
12:37:49 PM
On 12/03/2014 drdeviousii wrote:
> Any repeat will be in your sports-style, no-one
>is ever going to do it ground up so why did you even bother writing it
>up other that to pad your ego??!?

Did you not even bother to read the article Gerry wrote? One of the other routes Gerry put up in similar style of similar difficulty has already been ground up onsighted by Crazy John. Prior history says your certainty is unfounded. Perhaps it will never happen on this particular route, who knows, but the possibility certainly exists for the sufficiently bold and talented.

Well done Gerry.
uwhp510
12/03/2014
12:44:58 PM
On 12/03/2014 drdeviousii wrote:
>you rap inspected it, cleaned it, rehearsed it multiple times, ticked placements,
>racked gear in order, then say it was done in legitimate trad style!!!!!!
> NOICE one Gez, most people call that shite a failed sports route.

So its obvious that headpointing is not everyone's cup of tea, but seriously, why the rage? Did Gerry steal your girlfriend once or something? Is is that by rehearsing the route and racking his gear in order... (Oh MY GOD WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN?!?!) ... you think that Gerry has somehow infringed on your personal rights? Maybe you don't rate headpointed ascents as being valid, but given that the Ben is a no-bolts area then what are the other realistic options for routes like this?

Maybe it will never get a ground up ascent... but who gives a fuch? At least the possibility is there.
anthonycuskelly
12/03/2014
1:22:56 PM
Sounds like an awesome route. I don't understand any negativity around rehearsing, the route's still there for anyone else to ground up onsight if they want, and it's been cleaned of death blocks.

shiltz
12/03/2014
1:33:11 PM
It's hardly a new approach. People have cleaned, located gear and rehearsed on top rope prior to "head-pointing" here and overseas for decades - was especially common at Araps and of course still is with UK "hard grit". It leaves the door open to others to do it onsight if they can, or in similar "head point" style, or even pre-placing the gear if they want to reduce the risk further.
Which part upset you dr? Was it the pre-inspection, cleaning, gear location, rehearsal or ordered the racking? Or did you think he should have bolted it and made it a sport route?
One Day Hero
12/03/2014
2:01:05 PM
One Day Hero thinks this route sounds really cool. However, the ongoing trend of talking about one's self in the third person has left him slightly bemused.
kieranl
12/03/2014
2:22:19 PM
kieranl thinks that this style creates a sense of objectivity that is often lacking in climbers' reporting of their own achievements. If he knew anything about literary criticism he could probably go on at great length about it at this point and use a lot of very long words but he doesn't so he won't.

ps : Good-looking route though.
Damo666
12/03/2014
3:15:00 PM
On 12/03/2014 drdeviousii wrote:
>you rap inspected it, cleaned it, rehearsed it multiple times, ticked placements,
>racked gear in order, then say it was done in legitimate trad style!!!!!!
> NOICE one Gez, most people call that shite a failed sports route.
>

Nope. Nobody says that. As others have pointed out, it's been done for years, by plenty of good climbers on well-known routes and is still done in the UK. You can debate the finer points or (de)merits of 'headpointing' but it's not 'failed' sportsclimbing.

It's more accurate to say that sportsclimbing is failed rockclimbing.


> Any repeat will be in your sports-style, no-one
>is ever going to do it ground up ...??!?
>
>

Ah, OK, you're that guy who said that Cerro Torre would never be climbed, The Beatles would never make it and the computer would never take off? How's that prediction stuff working out for you so far?

Gerry's style leaves room for improvement, creating a future opportunity to excel. A line of bolts would deny that.

Macciza
12/03/2014
6:37:17 PM
On 12/03/2014 drdeviousii wrote:
>On 11/03/2014 Macciza wrote:
>>Thank god that you got there before some sport bolter who would have
>rap inspected, rehearsed it etc
>
>OI MACCA, did you miss the part where he said he did infact rap inspect,
>clean & rehearse it????

Jeez, Talk about a cheap shot hitting wide of the mark . . .
Of course I did not miss the part about rap inspect, clean & rehearse it - you quoted me . . ? Did you YOU miss that part ? ? ?

How's your comprehension?? I think you completely missed the part where I said "and then still put rings every two metres to sanitise the route into a 'classic' consumer route ...." Do you see the difference that makes? Do you realise the implication of the 'sanitise'-ation comment? Can you see that only using the available placements and placing the gear is vastly different (superior) to putting artificial aids every 2 metres?

Obviously this is all too much for you to comprehend - and if I have to explain it all to you, you probably won't understand . . .
ithomas
12/03/2014
7:22:19 PM
Good on you Gerry and Ingvar. If any of the complaining pissants had ever climbed at Stacks, or anywhere else on the Ben for that matter, they would be full of admiration. Honest reporting of a significant bolt free climb on an intimidating cliff is to be applauded. One thing seems clear; it will not be the critics who make the effort to flash the route without inspection.

Macciza
12/03/2014
8:03:17 PM
On 12/03/2014 ithomas wrote:
>Good on you Gerry and Ingvar. If any of the complaining pissants had ever
>climbed at Stacks, or anywhere else on the Ben for that matter, they would
>be full of admiration. Honest reporting of a significant bolt free climb
>on an intimidating cliff is to be applauded. One thing seems clear; it
>will not be the critics who make the effort to flash the route without
>inspection.

+1
crazyjohn
14/03/2014
7:02:33 AM
Gerry asked me to chime in about his surmounting terror. There are no bolts at Ben and this is the way forward for new routes. I think his headpointing style at Stacks was excellent and the climb is top notch. Its actually not terribly dangerous. He did a great job of cleaning it and the gear is spacey but actually bomber. I thought the climb was as committing as onsighting alot of the 24's at Arapiles. Yeah maybe not many people will climb Surmounting Terror but not many people onsight 24's at araps either.

As far as headpointing goes in general, I think its crap. It works in Ben Lomond and I was happy to take a chance to keep in line with the crag ethic and the adventure! But headpoint routes in bolted areas are pretty wanky.
rightarmbad
14/03/2014
7:26:40 AM
Conformity is not always best.
You could say that head point routes in bolted ares are very special.

Allows bolt only seekers a glimpse of other styles and maybe even tempt them off the straight and narrow every now and again to experience something other than same, same.

It's the ones that are different that you remember.

 Page 1 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 22
There are 22 messages in this topic.

 

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