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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 2 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40
Author
Cable Car over Mt Wellington's Organ Pipes
james
14/07/2014
10:46:14 AM
On 12/07/2014 Cam McKenzie wrote:
>I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that Western Canada is probably
>more populous (and has more tourists) than Hobart.

Of course the population is lower in Tasmania but population density is similar. Locals don't use them, tourists only. Lots of tourist go to Tasmania. If there are 5-6 of them in BC & AB (more are proposed & would be built if enviro concerns could be satisfied). There's probably an argument for 1 in Tasmania.
lacto
14/07/2014
12:02:17 PM
the engineering for high winds is not had to solve BUT the wind would cause passenger discomfort and would close the use during those times which would be a larger cost to the project than designing for the winds.
spicelab
14/07/2014
2:48:27 PM
On 13/07/2014 Doug wrote:
>That's what we keep saying but that doesn't seem to deter the proponents
>or those supporters who don't actually spend much time on the mountain.

Developers/proponents will always talk a big game right up until the moment a project falls flat. It's just how they roll. Like how climbers wax optimistic driving to the crag before getting humiliated on a route.

>I certainly hope you are right about this, but there are dark forces massing
>behind this proposal which would have no qualms about trampling the environment
>in the name of "development". The best hope there is in terms of stopping
>it is to put forth as many cases against is as possible - during the actual
>period that submissions will be accepted.

One thing the Gunns debacle made clear is that obtaining planning approval (via novel, bastardised means) is one thing, but if the project is a dog, no would-be proponent or investor will pony up when it comes to the crunch. Although I agree that Tassie's history in bending over to accommodate almost any form of development means it's within the realms of possibility that the government would attempt to screw taxpayers and the State by bankrolling future losses.

I'll definitely be putting in a submission, along with all of my relatives in Tas.


ambyeok
14/07/2014
4:01:25 PM
On 14/07/2014 spicelab wrote:
>Developers/proponents will always talk a big game right up until the moment
>a project falls flat. It's just how they roll. Like how climbers wax
>optimistic driving to the crag before getting humiliated on a route.

ROTFL. Quote of the year.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
14/07/2014
4:42:06 PM
On 14/07/2014 ambyeok wrote:
>On 14/07/2014 spicelab wrote:
>>Developers/proponents will always talk a big game right up until the
>moment
>>a project falls flat. It's just how they roll. Like how climbers wax
>>optimistic driving to the crag before getting humiliated on a route.
>
>
>ROTFL. Quote of the year.

Yes, a good one & worth posting here, I reckon.





@ Doug;
How much effect do you think it will have if non-Tassie residents write to those you suggested?
martym
14/07/2014
5:22:18 PM
On 14/07/2014 spicelab wrote:
>Although I agree that Tassie's history in bending over to accommodate almost
>any form of development means it's within the realms of possibility that
>the government would attempt to screw taxpayers and the State by bankrolling
>future losses.

The mayor of hobart wanted to buy the Sydney Monorail....

Doug
14/07/2014
5:46:44 PM
On 14/07/2014 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:

>@ Doug;
>How much effect do you think it will have if non-Tassie residents write
>to those you suggested?

I think it could make a great deal of difference, M9.
The strongest argument supporters of the cable car can come up with is the notion that it will be a big boost to tourism, even though figures show that Mt Wellington already figures in the top 4 places tourists visit in Tasmania.
IF lots of non-Tassie residents who have and/or intend to climb on Mt Wellington were to write to the Wellington Park Management Trust, articulately and reasonably expressing their opposition, it would significantly buttress the case local climbers are making.
We think we have a world class crag in the Organ Pipes. Consider: the position perched above the Derwent Estuary and Hobart Town with views as far ranging as Freycinet, the Tasman Peninsula and down the D'Entrecasteaux Channel; the range and quality of routes - both trad and sport; ease of access (especially with the new track network) and egress; and yet a certain sense of wild remoteness above the recovering rainforest at the foot of the crag. A great deal of this would be lost if a cable car was built in the place that is proposed.
The Wellington Park Management Plan (http://www.wellingtonpark.org.au/assets/FinalManagementPlan2013WithMaps_140226.pdf) (see Chapter 8, part B: "The Pinnacle Special Area") says that any new structures or developments must not negatively affect existing recreational activities; the more climbers that write to the Trust to tell them how this cable car would negatively impact on climbing on the Organ Pipes, the more likely they are to listen.
By all means compose your letters ~ just hold off sending them until the period for submissions is announced as the Trust has said only submissions presented during that 30 day period will be considered.

Doug
14/07/2014
11:51:22 PM
Just to put things into perspective, here's what the Tourism Council of Tasmania and the Chamber of Industry has to say about a cable car on Mount Wellington:
http://www.themercury.com.au/news/tasmania/chamber-of-industry-tourism-body-claim-cable-car-project-is-significant-to-state/story-fnj4f7k1-1226887157182

... and this is what we stand to lose, which the cable car going directly over this section of the Organ Pipes ...




Doug
31/07/2014
8:15:36 PM
... and here's one for you sports spurts: In Flagrante Dilecto, 24, 50 metres of sustained brilliance ...



This route is immediately right of Sky Rocket.

Doug
3/08/2014
10:41:36 AM
According to todayís Mercury newspaper, the Wellington Park Management Trust have now called for submissions from the public on possible rule changes for development at the pinnacle of the mountain. Now is the time for anyone who does not want to see a cable car running directly over the Organ Pipes, with a 36 metre tower and a 3 story building, perched between the summit and the Organ Pipes.

In setting up the Trust, a lengthy consultative process was undertaken to gather input from any interested persons and groups in the community. This resulted in the formulation of the Wellington Park Management Plan The proposed extension to the Pinnacle Specific Area would significantly contravene several sections of the plan (see Chapter 8b).

Submissions can be made directly to the Trust by individuals or groups. I believe that the Climbers Club of Tasmania will put in a group submission, as will other interest groups. I intend to put in an individual submission and urge you to do likewise.

Email addresses for members of The Trust are:

Chairman: Alex von Krusenstierna axel@wellingtonpark.org.au
Others: Anne McConnell anne.mcconnell@wellingtonpark.org.au
John Whittington john.whittington@dpipwe.tas.gov.au
Ashley Rushton ashley.rushton@parks.tas.gov.au
Christine Mucha cmucha@iinet.net.au

Many of you have spent significant time climbing on the Organ Pipes or hiking on the mountain slopes around the Pipes. Some of you have only visited the mountain briefly. Others of you may have yet to visit the Organ Pipes but hope to do so one day. I believe this is a watershed moment, a moment where the natural values of the southeast face of Mt Wellington, in particular the Organ Pipes and the area around The Columns, can be preserved or lost forever. Can you help by making a representation to he Wellington Park Management Trust?

Best regards

Doug

Doug
4/08/2014
1:06:04 PM
Here is an image showing the proposed addition to the Pinnacle Specific Area which, if approved, will open the door for a cable car directly over the Organ Pipes. The green polygon shows the proposed expansion; the red line is the route of the cable car; the red circle is the terminus (which will actually be an enormous structure) and the red triangle represents the 36 metre high tower that will support the cable:



Now is the time for anyone who cares to make a representation to the WPMT. This page has links to the proposal to amend the PSA and to various forms that you can you use to make a submission:
http://www.wellingtonpark.org.au/draft-amending-plan/
Some points you might make:
# environmental impact on a sensitive sub-alpine environment
# severe impingement on the climbing experience
# hydrologic concerns that any further development in the area will disrupt the water table, decreasing or polluting the springs that emerge lower down and affecting the stability of rock structures
# any buildings closer to the top of the Organ Pipes will restrict climbers' access for recreation and rescue
# increased risk of the general public easily accessing the top of the cliff with the resultant safety issues: we've already had problems with people throwing rocks down on climbers - this would only increase
# incalculable potential damage by any blasting in the construction of foundations needed for buildings erected closer to the cliff edge

You've got a month to put in a representation but the sooner the better!

Thanks and regards

Doug
johnpitcairn
4/08/2014
3:36:27 PM
Is it worth non-Aussie residents making submissions? Or will those just be ignored?

I'd potentially like to climb this stuff some day, and visit nearby spots of interest/gastronomy, with partner in tow and credit card in hand. But the thing that will get me there from NZ is the climbing. If there's a dirty great mechanical clusterf*ck over it all and tourists/bogans kicking shit down on me, I'll go elsewhere.
kieranl
4/08/2014
4:14:12 PM
On 4/08/2014 johnpitcairn wrote:
>Is it worth non-Aussie residents making submissions? Or will those just
>be ignored?
>
John, coming from NZ, your submission would probably be better received in Tassie than those of us from the mainland.

Doug
4/08/2014
5:03:20 PM
On 4/08/2014 johnpitcairn wrote:
>Is it worth non-Aussie residents making submissions? Or will those just
>be ignored?
Definitely! Please put in a submission. And ask your mates to do likewise. The cable car proponents argue it would be good for tourism. In the long term we think it would have a negative impact.
Have also PM'ed you regarding this.
>
>I'd potentially like to climb this stuff some day, and visit nearby spots
>of interest/gastronomy, with partner in tow and credit card in hand. But
>the thing that will get me there from NZ is the climbing. If there's a
>dirty great mechanical clusterf*ck over it all and tourists/bogans kicking
>shit down on me, I'll go elsewhere.
These are exactly the points we need people coming from outside Tassie to make.

Duang Daunk
4/08/2014
6:12:17 PM
Will they charge extra for my mountain bike?
Beuregaurd
7/08/2014
11:32:26 AM
Climbers and cable cars coexist all over the world. A CC isnít going to stop climbing. The telephriques in the alps are handy for climbers. A CC would be vastly more efficient than burning petrol to lift a ton of motor car with every tourist to the top of MW. And It would give climbers a way up without having to hire a car or hike.
Live and let live. Is there a counter-petition for the CC?

Climboholic
7/08/2014
9:57:20 PM
It would certainly be convenient, but does convenience rate higher as a value than preserving the feel of wilderness right on Hobart's doorstep? In the end it will come down to money. I tend to think that whilst a cable car may attract families and retirees, it will discourage the adventurous tourist who tends to visit Tassie for the hiking and outdoors. I experienced this when I visited Christchurch and intentionally avoided the cable car to drive up instead. If they closed the road it would become more financially viable, but surely it wouldn't be legal for National Parks to close a road to prop up a commercial enterprise.

If there was a cable car up Mt Wellington when I first visited in 2005, I wouldn't have the fond memory of hitch hiking adventures due to all the hire cars in Hobart being booked.
Cam McKenzie
8/08/2014
8:03:23 AM
On 7/08/2014 Climboholic wrote:
>It would certainly be convenient, but does convenience rate higher as a
>value than preserving the feel of wilderness right on Hobart's doorstep?
>In the end it will come down to money. I tend to think that whilst a cable
>car may attract families and retirees, it will discourage the adventurous
>tourist who tends to visit Tassie for the hiking and outdoors. I experienced
>this when I visited Christchurch and intentionally avoided the cable car
>to drive up instead. If they closed the road it would become more financially
>viable, but surely it wouldn't be legal for National Parks to close a road
>to prop up a commercial enterprise.
>
>If there was a cable car up Mt Wellington when I first visited in 2005,
>I wouldn't have the fond memory of hitch hiking adventures due to all the
>hire cars in Hobart being booked.

It would certainly be convenient for accessing routes from the top of the pipes (The Columns etc.) if you didn't have a car, but there are a lot of areas, that are best accessed from below (Flange, Northern Buttress, Avalanche Couloir etc.), for which getting dropped at the top would make the approach a massive pain.

Other than the fact that you might be able to get a post climb beer on the summit, there are no positives to the cable car for climbers.



Doug
8/08/2014
7:40:48 PM
On 7/08/2014 Beuregaurd wrote:
>Climbers and cable cars coexist all over the world. A CC isnít going to
>stop climbing.

To the contrary. Here's an extract from an email we received from Louise Shepherd this morning:
I have climbed several times on Table Mountain in South Africa.
The cable car has effectively closed at least the one climb that is directly below it.
Grease from the cable drips down onto the cliff below and has made one previously popular moderate route unclimbable.
It has affected many other routes with visual and audio intrusion, rubbish from construction below the cliff and so on.

In terms of accessibility, the big difference between Table Mountain and Mt Wellington is that Table Mountain has no access by road.
Sightseers, tourists, rock climbers and walkers must either walk up (which takes at least one hour each way for fit people), or take the cable car.
This is not the case on Mt Wellington, making the market very limited.
Given excellent access by road and walking tracks, a cable car on Mt Wellington seems utterly pointless and devoid of any redeeming features.
A CC
>would be vastly more efficient than burning petrol to lift a ton of motor
>car with every tourist to the top of MW. And It would give climbers a way
>up without having to hire a car or hike.

Most visits to climb on Mt Wellington don't involve a trip to the summit. In any case, if you actually look at the proposal, the terminus for the cable car is likely to significantly impact on access from the top.
There are many climbers in Hobart who are more than happy to take visiting climbers for a climb on our local crag. Just get on thesarvo.com
martym
8/08/2014
9:29:34 PM
On 7/08/2014 Beuregaurd wrote:
>Climbers and cable cars coexist all over the world. A CC isnít going to
>stop climbing. The telephriques in the alps are handy for climbers. A CC
>would be vastly more efficient than burning petrol to lift a ton of motor
>car with every tourist to the top of MW.
Is this proposed cable car going to be solar powered? Otherwise it's going to chew up just as much fuel to get each one of those one ton cars hanging from a cable up and down every 5 minutes.

>And It would give climbers a way
>up without having to hire a car or hike.
How do you get to the cable car? Is there an airport shuttle? Those things must weigh more than just one ton hey...


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There are 40 messages in this topic.

 

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