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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 13 of 13. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 100 | 101 to 120 | 121 to 140 | 141 to 160 | 161 to 180 | 181 to 200 | 201 to 220 | 221 to 240 | 241 to 257
Author
Carrot failure @ Muline
patto
30/11/2013
8:15:18 AM
On 30/11/2013 Jim Titt wrote:
>Hmmm. Maybe you mean the Euros have vast experience in bolting sandstone
>for at least a century and know not to bother with pissy little mechanical
>bolts?

Slap down all the way from Germany!

Thanks the Jim! :-)

nmonteith
30/11/2013
2:05:41 PM
On 30/11/2013 Jim Titt wrote:
>On 29/11/2013 nmonteith wrote:
>>Exactly. Bundaleer and many of the steep crags in the Grampians are made
>>of rock in the lower end of the hardness scale. Remember that Europeans
>>bolt granite and limestone, not sandstone. Same goes for most a most
>American
>>sport crags. Red Rocks and Red River Gorge are major exceptions though
>>- where truebolts would also be crap.
>
>Hmmm. Maybe you mean the Euros have vast experience in bolting sandstone
>for at least a century and know not to bother with pissy little mechanical
>bolts?

Well many of the Europeans that end up bolting in Australia have no experience of sandstone. In 2009 we had two groups from two different countries placing expansions in the blue mountains. Both groups had bolted all around the world - with expansions.
Jim Titt
30/11/2013
5:25:15 PM
Iīve seen Australians come to the Oktoberfest and get so pissed they throw up, I guess this proves all Australians canīt hold their beer!

There are sandstone crags all over Europe but since sandstone doesnīt lend itself to really hard routes it doesnīt get in the news much and to be honest most climbers prefer other rock types anyway as a lot of sandstone needs techniques a bit different to limestone.
A good number of them are either in crap places or crap in themselves anyway so donīt attrack outside visitors and it doesnīt give particularly good sport routes most of the time anyway if you asked me. Iīve climbed on maybe 20 because I was there but wouldnīt make a trip specially to go sandstone bolt climbing.

The Euros went through this discussion way back and had already worked out a reliable way of bolting even the softest sandstone in the early 1900īs and started to go over to stainless glue-ins in the late 1960īs. There are maybe 50,000 bolts in the Elbe Sandstone and they donīt come loose or fall out.
The Americans have struggled through all the mechanical bolt systems more recently (apart from carrots!) as they have enormous numbers of sandstone cliffs as well and for the soft rock itīs either 5/8" x 4" or glue-ins these days. For Australians to ignore the experience gained on other continents strikes me as burying ones head in the sand but we then donīt have ostriches here either!
maxdacat
2/12/2013
9:04:21 AM
Jim - aren't there some bolted sandstone 9a's in Kronthal?
martym
2/12/2013
1:48:50 PM
Maybe we should just start using knots...

Mr Poopypants
2/12/2013
6:13:30 PM
That's just his macrame to give him something to do while belaying.

The good Dr
4/12/2013
10:32:12 AM
Has there been any responce from HB?
grangrump
4/12/2013
10:52:50 AM
On 4/12/2013 The good Dr wrote:
>Has there been any responce from HB?

which is almost certainly the only time HB has ever been called a ponce...

nmonteith
4/12/2013
1:12:45 PM
On 4/12/2013 The good Dr wrote:
>Has there been any responce from HB?

No

Climboholic
18/12/2013
5:45:50 PM
On 27/11/2013 nmonteith wrote:
>On 27/11/2013 Tastrad wrote:
>>No, they didn't fall out - a few were found to be loose and pulled out
>>with fingers - retightened they are fine.
>
>As I suspected. So they are fine then. I actually found when I started
>placing expansions I was afraid to tighten them heavily (after I snapped
>the head off a 10mm dynabolt doing so), so I suspect some of the loose
>expansion bolts were never correctly tightened anyway...

As an engineer who has never placed an expansion bolt in rock, please tell me that it is standard practice to use a torque wrench when tightening dynabolts?
dalai
18/12/2013
6:01:48 PM
On 18/12/2013 Climboholic wrote:
>As an engineer who has never placed an expansion bolt in rock, please
>tell me that it is standard practice to use a torque wrench when tightening
>dynabolts?

As an engineer, you may not like the answer to this question...
james
19/12/2013
2:37:34 AM
On 18/12/2013 Climboholic wrote:
>As an engineer who has never placed an expansion bolt in rock, please
>tell me that it is standard practice to use a torque wrench when tightening
>dynabolts?

hahhahahahahhahahha
surfziggy
31/01/2014
11:27:11 AM
Pretty much all the bolts in the swanage and portland limestone on the south coast of the UK are glue in stainless staples/ring bolts. Even though it's limestone, and it's coastal, The top part of it is often crumbly. The expansion bolts that were originally used didn't stand the test of time and got replaced with staples or ring bolts.

You also can't lower directly of carrots, so it requires access to the top of the cliff.

nmonteith
3/02/2014
9:43:22 AM
I got a reply from Malcolm whilst I was overseas...

----------------

I have tested my carrots and broken hangers in direct pull out. But then I have also have had two glue in rings fail on me too! I gues its natural variation in placement and or place-er. Not good though. The two other bolts you refered to, first bolt on After Midnight and forth bolt on Path of Yin while superficialy look like carrots are actually 1/2 x 3 1/2 inch Raul expansion bolts that I bought back from the States and are probably some of the strongest bolts out there. While not stainless they certainly are not mild steel, in fact grade 8 carbon steel. I used quite a few of these around about the place, mostly on steepground.

Even rusted to shit they probably are twice as strong as the quick draw you will clip it, with, which isn't saying much as most bolts are stronger than caribiners no matter what their condition. However I think some bolts may need some attention and I have thought about some of mine. But over reaction is not the answer, as I have mentioned I have had two glue ins rings pull out on me and have heard of many others failing but should that mean that all glue ins are shit and should be replaced, I don't think so. Climbing is potentially dangerous and all types of bolts potentially could fail. Best not to think about it too hard if you want to go climbing. Maybe trad is safer?

Anyway I will look at some of my older bolts with a more critical eye from now on.

Malcolm

The good Dr
5/02/2014
1:30:26 PM
Good to get a reply which is carefully worded at least. Raising the bit about glue ins though is a bit of a diversionary tactic given that the question is not about glue-ins.


Stugang
5/02/2014
10:03:57 PM
Unagressively worded yes but at the same time totally random with no outcome.

Macciza
5/02/2014
11:36:04 PM
Onya HB

Well said! I certainly trust your judgement...

And the comments about glue-ins is well deserved here, given that they are part of what is being discussed, even if only to remind people that glue-ins are not always bomber, and that they can and do fail.... I have certainly seen many dodgy and failing rings etc... Possibly more then bad carrots...

And yeah Trad probably is safer, or at least you die by your own hand, rather then someone else's...

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There are 257 messages in this topic.

 

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