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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 8 of 13. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 100 | 101 to 120 | 121 to 140 | 141 to 160 | 161 to 180 | 181 to 200 | 201 to 220 | 221 to 240 | 241 to 257
Author
Carrot failure @ Muline
widewetandslippery
21/11/2013
3:35:44 PM
On 21/11/2013 uwhp510 wrote:
>On 21/11/2013 rodw wrote:
>>I get that but I'm only talking about visual impact,
>
>So am I. I'm saying that the look of ring bolts shits me (not their feel
>or taste or load rating or anything else) because of the blandifying effect
>they have on a crag. I think that once you start sinking stainless rings
>at a crag its the first steps down the path of it starting look like every
>other sport climbing shit-hole. Folks who only ever go sport climbing
>have probably never considered that this is even a bad thing, because they
>only ever visit sport climbing shit-holes, but personally, I hate it.

And I personally get an itchy ring. And I scratch my own. Nothing like figuring out if its a worm or a haemorrhoid. And god dam when I'm at Macas havin a good scratch there is visual impact.

pecheur
21/11/2013
3:41:46 PM
On 21/11/2013 ajfclark wrote:
>On 21/11/2013 pecheur wrote:
>>I agree, ban chalk ...
>
>Spoken like a true dryhander...

I wash afterwards all the time tyvm (well unless there's no available water supply).

tnd
21/11/2013
4:00:51 PM
On 21/11/2013 uwhp510 wrote:
>So am I. I'm saying that the look of ring bolts shits me (not their feel
>or taste or load rating or anything else) because of the blandifying effect
>they have on a crag. I think that once you start sinking stainless rings
>at a crag its the first steps down the path of it starting look like every
>other sport climbing shit-hole. Folks who only ever go sport climbing
>have probably never considered that this is even a bad thing, because they
>only ever visit sport climbing shit-holes, but personally, I hate it.

Now there's a well-reasoned, objective point of view...

ajfclark
21/11/2013
4:18:10 PM
On 21/11/2013 pecheur wrote:
>I wash afterwards all the time tyvm (well unless there's no available water supply).

So because I don't shower after climbing my hands sweat?

What's tyvm?
pecheur
21/11/2013
4:22:14 PM
On 21/11/2013 ajfclark wrote:
>On 21/11/2013 pecheur wrote:
>>I wash afterwards all the time tyvm (well unless there's no available
>water supply).
>
>So because I don't shower after climbing my hands sweat?
>
>What's tyvm?

I think you need to google "dry hander" and tyvm ...

The good Dr
21/11/2013
4:30:18 PM
On 21/11/2013 uwhp510 wrote:
>On 21/11/2013 rodw wrote:
>>I get that but I'm only talking about visual impact,
>
>So am I. I'm saying that the look of ring bolts shits me (not their feel
>or taste or load rating or anything else) because of the blandifying effect
>they have on a crag. I think that once you start sinking stainless rings
>at a crag its the first steps down the path of it starting look like every
>other sport climbing shit-hole. Folks who only ever go sport climbing
>have probably never considered that this is even a bad thing, because they
>only ever visit sport climbing shit-holes, but personally, I hate it.

You need to get out more! France would be a good start.

nmonteith
21/11/2013
5:12:08 PM
I really hate it when I go to a crag and people are using kernmantle ropes. It ruins the whole experience for me. Hemp ropes are so much more pleasing to the eye with their natural brown color.

phillipivan
Online Now
21/11/2013
7:07:55 PM
On 21/11/2013 uwhp510 wrote:
>blandifying


Don't ever use this word again.
patto
21/11/2013
7:16:05 PM
My question regarding Trubolts wasn't to bring up "Trubolts" are crap fanatics. They clearly aren't in cohesive, strong materials. It was intended to explore the reasons for poor performance. In hard rock there is no reason for poor performance. And as pointed out in many parts of the Grampians the rock is hard.

The good Dr did address some of these reasons, but other comments missed the point.

kuu
21/11/2013
7:16:50 PM
On 21/11/2013 nmonteith wrote:
>I really hate it when I go to a crag and people are using kernmantle ropes.
>It ruins the whole experience for me. Hemp ropes are so much more pleasing
>to the eye with their natural brown colour.

I suggest you should avoid those crags and go elsewhere.

;-)

nmonteith
21/11/2013
8:15:45 PM
On 21/11/2013 patto wrote:
>My question regarding Trubolts wasn't to bring up "Trubolts" are crap fanatics.
> They clearly aren't in cohesive, strong materials. It was intended to
>explore the reasons for poor performance. In hard rock there is no reason
>for poor performance. And as pointed out in many parts of the Grampians
>the rock is hard.

Yes, much of the Grampians has excellent quality hard rock - for sandstone. The problem is the places that have the best steep sport climbing (ie the caves) are usually where people take the most falls, and where the rock is the softest (that's why they are caves usually!). And being natural rock it's really hard to know what is hard rock and what is soft rock. It can change from solid to shite within metres. A climb may consist of many different bands of good rock and bad rock. That's the "beauty" of sandstone, and especially evident in the Grampians with the cool wavy bands at places like Muline.

So in answer to your question - some of the time Tru-bolts may work - but it is very hard to work out when!

One of the reasons it is very hard to get a perfect 10mm hole is that when you drill rockclimbig anchors you do so in a non-conventional environment. You are always doing it in awkward positions - especially when bolting caves. Usually it is a one handed operation, holding the drill above your head whilst using the other hand to stay upright and as a brace. Try holding a 5kg dumbell above your head and keep it steady whilst massive amounts of torque tries to spin it out of your hands and drill dust pours into your eyes - all whilst focusing intently on the sketchy sky hook you are attached to! It's hard work - and if you hit a band of tougher rock midway through the hole it can cause weird stop starts - every bit of wobble creates a larger hole. A lot of the time it takes many attempts to drill a hole above your head - its super pumpy! In construction you just stand there above the concrete and drill a perfect hole every time using both hands on the drill.

The other problem with them is that when they have a hanger attached on steep rock the hanger gets forcibly rotated - and this unscrews the nut, then the bolt is loose, and then it starts spinning and creates a bigger hole (in softer rock). The way bolt anchors are used for climbign is very different to construction. Ours get pushed in all sorts of directions as a single bolt - whilst in construction it is way more common to have multiple bolts working on holding one attachment point (ie 4 bolts on each corner of a plate against a rock)

There is a lot of 'theory' in bolting but most of the knowledge I have gained is from practical experience.
patto
21/11/2013
8:25:29 PM
Thanks Neil! And I don't doubt your experience!

Timfreddo
21/11/2013
8:56:56 PM
On 21/11/2013 patto wrote:
>Thanks Neil! And I don't doubt your experience!


Experience at grid bolting the fuch out of shitty caves....

nmonteith
21/11/2013
10:46:34 PM
On 21/11/2013 Timfreddo wrote:
>On 21/11/2013 patto wrote:
>>Thanks Neil! And I don't doubt your experience!
>
>Experience at grid bolting the fuch out of shitty caves....

With one liners like that you should consider a stand up career! I'm truly humbled.
uwhp510
21/11/2013
11:05:05 PM
On 21/11/2013 phillipivan wrote:
>Don't ever use this word again.

BLANDIFYING BLANDIFYING BLANDIFYING BLANDIFYING BLANDIFYING BLANDIFYING BLANDIFYING BLANDIFYING BLANDIFYING BLANDIFYING BLANDIFYING

;)
uwhp510
21/11/2013
11:07:16 PM
On 21/11/2013 tnd wrote:
>Now there's a well-reasoned, objective point of view...

But isn't subjectivity intrinsic to opinions?

JMK
21/11/2013
11:31:12 PM
Hear hear

sliamese
22/11/2013
8:52:06 AM
On 21/11/2013 nmonteith wrote:
>There is a lot of 'theory' in bolting but most of the knowledge I have
>gained is from practical experience.

in theory there is no difference between reality and theory. in reality however theres a massive one! i agree neil that just reading a book ain't much chop!

tru-bolts are totally bomber, sure not so much in softer rocks. i've placed hundreds and will continue to do so, in the right context. they are much more visual than a well placed glue in, with a flat large surface to reflect. but hey if you wanna talk visual's its the chalk that sticks out!

i merely want people to understand that if your knowledge is coming largely from a theoretical place, hesitate before re-bolting on high profile routes!!

nmonteith
22/11/2013
9:34:46 AM
On 22/11/2013 sliamese wrote:
>tru-bolts are totally bomber, sure not so much in softer rocks. i've placed
>hundreds and will continue to do so, in the right context.

I just want it to be clear that although a lot of people think Grampians rock is the bestest rock in the universe - that it doesn't mean it's the strongest rock in the universe! And that tru-bolts have no place on the high trafficked and best routes in the Grampians. Sandstone, no matter what type, is a weak and porous rock.

>i merely want people to understand that if your knowledge is coming largely
>from a theoretical place, hesitate before re-bolting on high profile routes!!

Exactly my point. The bolting got stuffed up the first time, lets not do it badly the 2nd time.

The good Dr
22/11/2013
1:47:30 PM
Sorry to burst the bubble Neil, but trubolts are not always rubbish in sandstone. Sandstone varies considerable in its level of hardness, strength and porosity, with compressive strenghts at times vastly greater than that of very high density concrete. Sandstone found in a lot of locations at Arapiles and in some of the grampians is extremely hard, not just on the surface, but to some depth. One of the methods used to indicate the relative density is a hammer tap test. Given that you are generally wanting high density rock within the 100mm outer layer, tapping the rock with a hammer will give a reasonable indication of the density to that depth as you will create audible resonance within the matrial to greater than that depth. This does take a bit of experience though.

With regards to the steep caves and heavily wind/water sculpted rock you are correct that this rock has eroded more readily due to being softer in general.

Any response from H yet?

 Page 8 of 13. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 100 | 101 to 120 | 121 to 140 | 141 to 160 | 161 to 180 | 181 to 200 | 201 to 220 | 221 to 240 | 241 to 257
There are 257 messages in this topic.

 

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