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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

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Author
Off-topic: Climbers who ride MOTORbikes.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
Online Now
1/02/2006
4:01:02 PM
tmarsh
30/08/2005 wrote;
> Just curious about other climbers who are out there who are keen cyclists as well. >I would imagine there is a big cross-over into the (snip)

On a similar theme how many out there in cyberclimbing world ride MOTORbikes ?
On Chockstone I know Firestorm1000, Hatman, blueben, mockmockmock, crazyone, Access Ant, and brat (gearing up for Vietnam) do; possibly Take! and Dalai; Mikl and Rich did (still do?); adski has had an interesting sojourn on one to the ‘bungles; citationx and billk also/maybe ride?;

I have recently gotten back into motorcycles and intend combining the two passions. Anyone else care to contribute to the thread or participate in a combined outing?

Dalai
1/02/2006
4:09:12 PM
Yes, I ride M9.

I also joined in the protest ride down the Eastern Freeway last week to try and stop the government from adding rule 151a, which will specifically ban motorbikes from lane splitting and lane filtering!!

SNAFU
1/02/2006
4:21:06 PM
I bought a KLX 650 not long ago and use it a bit around the Cathedral Ranges. Was planning to go to the Grampians soon, but now after the fires I guess other plans are needed...Mt.Buffalo maybe ?

nmonteith
1/02/2006
4:30:39 PM
I have one question (from the viewpoint of a non-motorbiker) Why are trail bikes so god-damn loud?
stuart
1/02/2006
4:44:50 PM
> I also joined in the protest ride down the Eastern Freeway last week to try
> and stop the government from adding rule 151a, which will specifically ban
> motorbikes from lane splitting and lane filtering!!

There's a law in place that's meant to keep them out of the bicycle lanes but I see that one ignored on a daily basis, so I wouldn't worry too much.

S
Dalai
1/02/2006
4:56:50 PM
There is a push by the NTC to put more rules in place for motorbikes. Quite a few studies overseas show it is safer to lane split and is also better for traffic congestion. Some countries have even acted on this and now made it law to allow motorbikes to legally lane split, also use bus and bicycle lanes in congested traffic conditions...

Stuart. Personally as a cyclist and motorcyclist, I don't have a problem with motorbikes using a cycle lane in peak hour if clear of traffic and riding at bicycle speeds...

Motorbikes as a commuting vehicle has the least impact on traffic congestion. Instead of all the cars with only the driver!

billk
Online Now
1/02/2006
5:12:22 PM
No M9, I'm a pushbiker.

On 1/02/2006 nmonteith wrote:
>I have one question (from the viewpoint of a non-motorbiker) Why are trail
>bikes so god-damn loud?

I think trail bikers like it like that (same applies to jet skiers and petrol heads).
James
1/02/2006
5:26:26 PM
I ride a bike & ride in the bike lanes (slowly)... always give bicycles right of way though .... I expect the same when I'm on my treddly!.

Neil - people modify the exhaust pipes (& fit after-market pipes) that have less baffles etc (ie noisier) to give more power i.e. make the bike go faster. I think you'll find many road bikes are just as loud as trail bikes.

b.t.w. I've left the end cap on the exhaust on my new bike so its quieter - I don't like loud bikes either!

SNAFU - the KLX 650 is good yeah! (I got one fairly recently also)
stuart
1/02/2006
5:29:01 PM
Dalai,

Bicycle lanes are designed to cut a bicycle rider some slack in the dangerous world of commuter transport. They should allow cyclist - as an unmotorised and slower moving vehicle - to move quickly and safely and in an orderly fashion. The bicycle lane is meant to be a safe place for the bicycle rider to do their thing.

Motorcycles are big, heavy, loud, intimidating machines needing long breaking distances being operated by people with no peripheral vision (their helmets) and a clear weight/damage advantage over a bicycle rider. And suddenly they're in the 1.6 metre wide lane with you and that's alright? No, that's not on.

Motorcycle riders will often get into the bicycle lane thinking they're saving themselves a few car lengths only to have to stop when the gap is too small for them. I've lost count of the amount of times I've had to leave the relative safety of my bike lane and head into the main lanes to get around a wedged motorcycle. Often they'll use their weight and size - not unlike a school bully - to push in front of you or side-push you when they come across a narrow gap and they want to get through. And how about the times I've seen motorcycle monster a bike-rider from behind in a bicycle-lane because they're in a hurry? That's a bit rich.

It's a very human trait that we exercise a narrow and self-interested view when it comes to protecting our own perspective. I believe this is the case when we become road-users, and for that matter when we defend an opinion in a forum, like we're doing now.

IMHO, motorcyles do not belong in the bicycle lane.

S
Dalai
1/02/2006
5:50:29 PM
Fair enough Stuart. Though personally I am of the opinion we really shouldn't bother with bicycle lanes at all, rather have an effective education program so that motorists realize that bicycles are defined in the road rules as a vehicle with equal rights!

I ride (bicycle) on average anything between 200 to 400+ km a week. In my many 'interactions' with motorists (including face to face, toe to toe out of car 'discussions') most of the standard comments are always about the bicyclist not having any rights to be on the road. i.e No licence, registration - in other words not paying for the privilege to be a road user. By creating bicycle lanes, it gives the impression that these are the only sections of the road we are allowed! As soon as there isn't a bicycle lane and we need to share a lane with cars, motorists arc up as we don't have a lane of our own so shouldn't be there!

I have only used a bike lane on a few occassions on the motorbike (fortunately I don't have the need during my daily commute) and both were at under 20km/hr, which is far slower than most average cyclists ride and with no bicycles in sight.

The good Dr
1/02/2006
6:41:45 PM
On 1/02/2006 nmonteith wrote:
>I have one question (from the viewpoint of a non-motorbiker) Why are trail
>bikes so god-damn loud?

Not all trail bikes are loud. It is mostly the 2-strokes. This is due to the type of exhaust required to create the appropriate back pressure. 4-strokes work quite differently and are much quieter.

I used to ride road bikes, but not for a while - still dream of a nice Duke though (one day - sigh)

SNAFU
1/02/2006
7:54:52 PM
Sounds like stuart has issues with us bikers ( big, heavy, noisy, needing long braking distances and operated by ppl with no peripheral vision ?????) . Fortunately we don't all behave like that...
The lane splitting issue is a thorny one but this new legislation simply isn't fair in its current form; according to the proposed law it would be illegal for a motorcycle to pass a stationary( but not parked) vehicle (e.g. a garbage truck doing its rounds), whereas it would be perfectly legal for a car( or pushie for that matter) to do so; a patently prejudicial and unecessary change to traffic laws. Hopefully more equitable legislation can be designed with input from the motorcycling community.
James, yes the KLX is indeed fun; plenty of grunt for getting up hills, but maybe a bit heavy compared to the new stuff (I have a few mates who own KTM 525EXCs).
A Chockstone member ride/climb day sounds like a good idea ! Anyone else up for it ?
robin
1/02/2006
9:15:25 PM
Sob, sob. I had to sell my bike when I was broke & destitute (VF750). I do have a nice set of leathers, boots and helmets!

As for lane splitting - is there any evidence that this is more dangerous than riding within a lane? I think not. I think the push to legislate against lane splitting is made by car drivers who are pissed off they can't do the same.
robin
1/02/2006
9:39:42 PM
Actually, I've thought about it for a bit & realised that climbing is the reason that I have not invested in another bike. I would love to buy another bike but I can't justify the expense because as a weekend warrior I would rather be out fighting the cliffs rather than battling the roads.
Dalai
1/02/2006
11:25:54 PM
On 1/02/2006 SNAFU wrote:
>Sounds like stuart has issues with us bikers

Unfortunately Stuart appears to be generalizing. All road using subgroups have a percentage of people who break the law and give a bad reputation for others (could easily list actions you see of each group) but doing so would serve no purpose to the discussion.




IdratherbeclimbingM9
Online Now
2/02/2006
8:55:04 AM
SNAFU wrote;
>James, yes the KLX is indeed fun; plenty of grunt for getting up hills, but maybe a bit heavy compared to the new stuff (I have a few mates who own KTM 525EXCs).
I have a heavy KTM, but its good for two up and maybe a pack of climbing gear to most places. Its tyres are more road than trail so that combined with its weight are its only limitations for serious off-road use.

>A Chockstone member ride/climb day sounds like a good idea ! >Anyone else up for it ?
I am, but my ignorance of m/cycle friendly locations in Vic is great.
Along with Buffalo do you have other suggestions SNAFU?

Being a border* dweller (*we get heaps of NSW media influence), I have not heard much re the proposed new Vic. motorcycle laws. Got any links peoples?

>Why are trail bikes so god-damn loud?
Yeah, I agree nmonteith.
The extra power that mods to exhaust systems may produce is bugger all compared to the aggro in others that results. Some modifications give similar performance increase without the noise, so the noise-police are right to pursue it.

stuart
2/02/2006
9:16:55 AM
> Fair enough Stuart. Though personally I am of the opinion we really shouldn't bother
> with bicycle lanes at all, rather have an effective education program so that motorists
> realize that bicycles are defined in the road rules as a vehicle with equal rights!

I'm with you there; at the root of the problem a bicyclist faces on the road is a perception held by some motorists that bicycles plain-out don't belong there. Until that issue is addressed, it's a daily battle. Motorcyclists, to a lesser degree, face the same prejudice and invisibility.

I would add that I'm with my motorcycling brothers and sisters in spirit, not against them. Note that I've employed a non-quantifiable tone of 'some' and 'many' rather than 'most' or 'all' in my reference to motorcyclists. It's not a generalisation, rather some in-case examples of bad behaviour and in support of the argument for bikes lanes being left for bikes.

Would add that it's always annoying when a marginalised group is vocalising their grief whilst not seeing the marginalised group immediately below them.

S

IdratherbeclimbingM9
Online Now
2/02/2006
9:24:10 AM
On 2/02/2006 stuart wrote:
>Would add that it's always annoying when a marginalised group is vocalising
>their grief whilst not seeing the marginalised group immediately below
>them.

It would be interesting to see a combined protest ride re the new law/s by both groups if they are both affected (indicated in an above post), as the numbers involved would be significant.
Maybe get a garbage truck driver (who is also a cyclist) to head the ride and no-one passes as per the new law, while he is stationary from time to time doing his work. I imagine the congestion created would be huge.

nmonteith
2/02/2006
9:24:32 AM
On 1/02/2006 SNAFU wrote:
>A Chockstone member ride/climb day sounds like a good idea ! Anyone else
>up for it ?

We already had one of those - although it was more of an anti-motobike Chockstone Gathering. It was at
Camels Hump (2nd Chocky Gathering) - and a large bunch of climbers practically lynched a bunch of
tosser trail-bikers who decided to ride their bikes down the walking track and under Oxbow. There was
screaming, abuse and even a near miss when one motorcyclist decided to try and run me down to
escape.
Dalai
2/02/2006
9:40:09 AM
Links:

NTC - Australian Road Rules General Amendments and Regulatory Impact Statement 2005

http://www.ntc.gov.au/RFCList2004.aspx?page=A024003055000000204

search for 151a

VACC submission for the legalisation of Lane Splitting

http://www.ntc.gov.au/rfcDocuments/0092GOV_Au_Road_Rules_Amendments_2006200601241626263885.pdf

mraa.org.au for additional information

News footage of the Protest

http://www.mraa.org.au/downloads/lane_splitting.wmv 2MB

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