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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

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Author
Off-topic: Climbers who ride MOTORbikes.
James
2/02/2006
12:41:56 PM
On 2/02/2006 nmonteith wrote:
>We already had one of those - although it was more of an anti-motobike
>Chockstone Gathering. It was at
>Camels Hump (2nd Chocky Gathering) - and a large bunch of climbers practically
>lynched a bunch of
>tosser trail-bikers who decided to ride their bikes down the walking track
>and under Oxbow.

as you could appreciate, riding motorbikes off-road & on-road is a fairly different scene... think gym climbing vs multi-pitch trad; or road cycling vs downhill mountain biking (ie push bikes). For me the biggest down-side to riding a trail bike (I ride virtually exclusively on-road - got a trail bike for other reasons) is that people assume that I go round tearing up the bush ala those wankers at Camels Hump.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
Online Now
2/02/2006
1:32:09 PM
Thanks for the links Dalai.

I have checked them out in depth and admit to finding a fair bit of chaff amongst the wheat, particularly regarding the slightly different versions of the actual Rules 151A and 271 vs the VACC documented same.

Although I tend to agree with the flavour of the VACC and think they have sourced some good info, I really think they are drawing a long bow at times in their assumptions/interpretations. The VACC document also contained a couple of typos that sometimes critically changes the whole meaning of the point they were trying to make.

It seems to me that VACC and NTC are not necessarily on the same page when it comes to their definitions of 'lane splitting'. At what point does 'lane filtering' become 'weaving'? ... judicious use of blinkers helps!

Most of the contentious issues involved would be overcome simply by changing lanes rather than passing within the same lane, and I think the thrust of the NTC is to achieve this outcome; ie change lanes rather than pass within close proximity within the same lane.

Another Rule in the NTC amendment package is 297 (2) ((3))
The rider of a motor bike must not ride with an animal on the petrol tank of the motor bike.

This rule also in 297 (1) includes children, as well as animals, not being in the lap of drivers of motor vehicles.

... ~> need to knock up a dog box for the rear of the bike; wonder how well my climbing harness fits the woof?
One Day Hero
2/02/2006
4:52:50 PM
Climbers getting ants in their pants about petrolheads is an interesting issue. I used to get quite pent up about it (anyone else ever fantasize about laying sea mines in the shoalhaven?)
But what harm do they really do? Yes it's loud and annoying, hopefully it fades into the distance quite quickly. There's a bit of erosion, but the roads and tracks they are eroding are already a scar on the landscape.
The arguement boils down to: I have no interest in their activity, it is mildly irritating to me, therefore lets come down on it hard and maybe get it banned.
The way we view trailbikers is the way most of the population views us!
I don't want climbing banned and I sympathise with bikerfolk and waterskifolk who don't want their sports banned.
In the meantime try to minimize the audio impact of your climbing by leaving the stereo at home and teasing people who indulge in screaming hissyfits when they fail to redpoint.

brat
2/02/2006
5:18:55 PM
MMmm, that bike that nearly ran you down Neil, did it look like this.....



Hhhaahaa...just kidding! :o)

This is my Asian special Buell Ulysses, great two up and can haul a lot of gear!

PS, please note how useful crag gear is for riding bikes, special Teva biker boots! :o)

SNAFU
2/02/2006
5:53:58 PM
Its painful to hear how much of a bad rep offroad riders get sometimes, to me its just another sport that gets me out into the truely awesome Aussie bush.
Sorry to hear how those hoon idiots screwed up the last meet at the Camels Hump. Unfortunately (as we've already established in this thread), humanity is liberally seeded with dickheads who struggle to respect others. If i'd been there, i would've considered stringing up the trusty Sterling and clothes-lining the bastards ;p
Seriously though, there are groups, like AMTRA , that are working to keep trail riding a sustainable and legitimate sport, as well as working with other user groups to make sure everyones concerns are known.

As far as motorcycle friendly destinations go M9, there should be plenty. Cathedral Ranges is definitely one. Mount Beckworth near Ballarat would be good. Cape Woolamai or Wilsons Prom could be fun too. Just looking through the East Vic VCC guide gives me heaps of ideas...
Depending on group size we might need a support vehicle to carry all the climbing gear, but I reckon brat's sweet lookin' ride would be a good start....:)


brat
3/02/2006
9:47:55 AM
Thanks SNAFU, I'm having trouble getting all our climbing gear, camping gear and personal stuff on already! :o)

The idea of a ride/climb is great, if a non-rider wants their fuel paid to haul the gear in their car would help those who have less carrying capacity, though I actually enjoy loading the bike up a la world treck! :o)
Ado
3/02/2006
1:08:47 PM
Been watching this one for a while thought id throw 2 cents worth, rounded down to 0 makes it worth nothing. I fall into most of the categories list here. The lane splitter, The noisy dirtbiker, the petrol head and the pushbiker.

Standard rules of lane splitting.

Only split lanes if traffic is at a standstill/jammed.
Lane split at a safe speed 30kph is good.
Be courtious to other drivers.

Standard rules of dirtbiking.

Ride on private property unless registered.
Spining the back tyre costs you money, wrecks the environment, and doesn't achieve much.
Consider other people.

Standard rules of pushbiking.

You are vulnerable
Be considerate of other drivers.
IF you don't wish to be a splot on the road follow the road rules

I still think that if a pushbike is to be considered a road going vehicle the rider should be licensed, the rider should have third party insurance and the bike in a roadworthy condition.

Over the years i have found that the biggest problem on our roads are car drivers. Some car drivers can't see past the car infront of them, the radio, the screaming kid in the back seat, the mobile phone held to the ear or the cigarette butt that they are about to throw out the window (which will no doubt end up either down the front of my jacket of in the local waterway).

Snafu - Solution to the gear on the motorbike is the old bike trailer. As i can't upload the picture from work (damn the powers to be if someone will put it up for me send me an email). The one i have has an esky that can be mounted to the front, will hold enough gear for two to camp, climb etc for as long as you want.


James
3/02/2006
2:30:43 PM
I've always wondered about trailers for motorbikes - what are they like to ride with? going on a huge long climbing road trip on a bike would be cool fun!

I remember seeing a link ages ago to some people (based in Belgium I think) that made single wheel motorbike trailers. It seemed like a great design - had a standard motorcycle wheel & with a swing arm & shock. in theory it should track behind a bike better, so would be more stable on dodgy roads especially(?). also the styling looked better than many other simple box-type designs I've seen. of course I can't find the link now...
ado
3/02/2006
2:43:34 PM
Depending on the bike and the trailer, trailers don't impede the rider much. Few simple things like don't turn too sharp at low speeds, load weight evenly, brake earlier etc. We tried carrying 4 half bags of gravel in the trailer (around 150kgs) and although you knew it was there it towed well. I have done some nice winding roads at around 120kph and the trailer just follows. Rough and dirt roads are just a case of slow down and remember that the wheels on the trailer are wider (yes i have tried fitting through too narrow a space).

Haven't tried a single wheeler but i have heard that they can get a bit wild if in the wrong conditions.
One Day Hero
3/02/2006
2:55:12 PM
On 3/02/2006 Ado wrote:
>I still think that if a pushbike is to be considered a road going vehicle
>the rider should be licensed, the rider should have third party insurance
>and the bike in a roadworthy condition.

The day I am forced to register my bike is the day I will proudly display my new number plate by riding down a major road, in the middle of the lane, at 10km/h, in rush hour.


IdratherbeclimbingM9
Online Now
3/02/2006
2:58:40 PM
LOL, ...but why would you want to be travelling faster than the peak hour traffic if your intent is a "proud display"?
:P

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Post edit; In the future ODH writes
>I live in Canberra, our traffic still moves.
"Nuff nuff !" sedthafaeries.
One Day Hero
3/02/2006
3:19:52 PM
I live in Canberra, our traffic still moves.
ado
3/02/2006
4:34:17 PM
On 3/02/2006 One Day Hero wrote:
>The day I am forced to register my bike is the day I will proudly display
>my new number plate by riding down a major road, in the middle of the lane,
>at 10km/h, in rush hour.

And you would be welcomed to do it. The main problem is the third party and the license. It is illegal to drive any other vehicle on the road without either. A mate had his car scratched and dented by a push bike that failed to give way at an intersection. The rider was not charged and as such my mate lost his rating one his excess and the rider gets off with a pranged bike and a few scratches.




brat
3/02/2006
4:50:47 PM
I agree with you totally Ado and I fall into all categories, there's a right and a wrong way to do everything, pity everyone focuses on the wrong! :o(
bordo
3/02/2006
8:17:04 PM
Actually its only compulsory to have third pary PERSONAL to drive a car. Third party PROPERTY is totally optional, and many people don't have it. So it could have just as easily been a car without third party property that ran through the lights and your friend would still be out of pocket for his car.

If cyclists are after third party insurance many organisations like Bicycle NSW, MTBA, possibly Cycling australia do it.........

SNAFU
3/02/2006
11:29:54 PM
I'm a bit slack when it comes to carrying luggage on the KLX ; I usually climb with my brother who owns a Toyota Prado 4WD :)
But still the question remains; who'd like to join in on a Chockstone ride /climb day ? Whether you ride or not doesnt matter; hopefully we could get some non-riders on the pillion seats and show them why its such a fun way to travel. I'm more than happy to organize things, so if you're interested drop me a PM
James
4/02/2006
11:57:53 AM
>But still the question remains; who'd like to join in on a Chockstone
>ride /climb day ? Whether you ride or not doesnt matter; hopefully we could
>get some non-riders on the pillion seats and show them why its such a fun
>way to travel. I'm more than happy to organize things, so if you're interested
>drop me a PM

could be a good idea - put details here.

SNAFU
6/02/2006
1:50:02 AM
The main thing is working out a crag that everyone can to get to.
Moving this to trip planning forum.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
Online Now
6/02/2006
11:23:05 AM
I am up for the trip but as you can see from the pic, it will be either gear in a rucksack or a pillion but probably not both, till I get myself some saddlebags/panniers.


take!
8/02/2006
9:30:28 AM
I ride a Fireblade motorbike. I ride it both on the road and at the racetrack, it hasn't had much use lately but will get daily use once Uni starts (Sydney traffic hmmm).
I also own a mountain bike fitted with slicks that I use for solo trips into and around the CBD.
I really have a problem with fellow cyclists who rant about cars/motorcyclists not giving way to them, particularly when they start quoting roadrules and regulations. I see other cyclists expressing their rights by hogging lanes and holding up cars, then when they arrive at a traffic light they just go straight through even if its red. The 'motorist' would have made it through the traffic light on the green had it not been held up by the cyclist, no wonder they are "out to get us". The 'motorists' have accountability by way of rego, if us cyclists want authority on the road we will have to wear the accountability, I'd rather be anonymous.
The cyclists who want to have it both ways get motorists angry and they are likely to take it out on me or others who try to STAY OUT OF THEIR F**KING WAY. Stop bleeting about rights and enjoy your freedom, ride around it.
I ride knowing that everyone is out to kill me if I let them -they won't see me and they won't give way. I ride around the traffic laws too BUT I don't expect any quarter from motorists, this has kept me alive on the mountainbike (and the Fireblade).
Ever seen a gazelle discuss the finer points of sharing the waterhole with a lion? Its a jungle out there - stay alive.

Anyhoo back to MOTORbikes, I reckon a supermoto (converted trailbike) fitted with a luggage rack would make a great crag and city bike, the Fireblade is not suited to access roads.

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