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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

Poll Option Votes Graph
Neil will cave in 3
8% 
Macca will get sick of pestering and stop it 3
8% 
The "authorities" will step in and mediate 1
3% 
Neil will drive up and retrobolt Macca's clacka 16
44% 
It will never end 2
6% 
"Neil.....I am your faather" 5
14% 
"I've always loved you, Macca" 2
6% 
"I had a faarm in Aaafricaa" 4
11% 

 Page 2 of 4. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 65
Author
How's the Neil/Macca thing gonna pan out?

Macciza
5/04/2013
10:10:25 PM
On 5/04/2013 Big G wrote:
>Wouldn't deringing a genuine sport 'route' (using tradominous' spurious
>use of apostrophes) be the equivalent of bolting a trad route? Bit odd
>from the high and mighty trad climbers, non?

You are assuming that all of Niels routes are pure sport routes - which they are not!
He has openly admitted to having ringbolted trad lines before and continues to do so . . !

And even if it is the same thing as 'bolting a trad route' - so what? Paybacks are a bitch aren't they? Maybe they will get a taste of how it feels . . .

stugang
5/04/2013
10:14:06 PM
On 5/04/2013 Big G wrote:
>Wouldn't deringing a genuine sport 'route' (using tradominous' spurious
>use of apostrophes) be the equivalent of bolting a trad route? Bit odd
>from the high and mighty trad climbers, non?

huh?

I assume your bigness is because of stature, not of intelligence.

Big G
5/04/2013
10:30:27 PM
On 5/04/2013 eduardo slabovic wrote:
>On 5/04/2013 Big G wrote:
>>Wouldn't deringing a genuine sport 'route' (using tradominous' spurious
>>use of apostrophes) be the equivalent of bolting a trad route? Bit odd
>>from the high and mighty trad climbers, non?
>
>huh?
>
>I assume your bigness is because of stature, not of intelligence.

On what grounds do you make that assumption?
uwhp510
5/04/2013
10:56:52 PM
On 5/04/2013 Big G wrote:
>Wouldn't deringing a genuine sport 'route' (using tradominous' spurious
>use of apostrophes) be the equivalent of bolting a trad route?

Exactly! The only difference is that one happens quite often and the other one happens almost never ever. The instructive lesson will be to watch the bolt clippers lose their shit like the world is ending when it does happen, which will put the reactions of the right minded trad folk in perspective for them.

stugang
5/04/2013
11:58:19 PM
An observation not an assumption, I was just being polite.

Big G
6/04/2013
7:18:22 AM
On 5/04/2013 eduardo slabovic wrote:
>An observation not an assumption, I was just being polite.

That's not an answer.

Btw your original post labelled it as an assumption. As I'm not very intelligent, you might need to explain it to me.
TradOminous
6/04/2013
5:43:24 PM
On 5/04/2013 Big G wrote:
>Wouldn't deringing a genuine sport 'route' (using tradominous' spurious
>use of apostrophes) be the equivalent of bolting a trad route? Bit odd
>from the high and mighty trad climbers, non?

Totally different scenarios!! And what is a 'genuine' sport route anyway?
One is removing an act of environmental vandalism, the other is performing an act of environmental vandalism!

Big G
6/04/2013
6:24:55 PM
Seen a photo of eternity or grey mist lately? Hardly 'leave no trace' is it?

E. Wells
6/04/2013
8:58:14 PM
When you reach the top of 'the easy pitch' of telstar in Mt vic there is a bomber crack, good for cams, but fear not if you dont have the right size, an awesome constriction has been hacked out perfect for a large nut too. Most obvious hacking and chipping (footers at Mt York etc..) I have seen is on trad routes. Im pretty sure large sections of the crack Big G mentioned would have been vertical gardens chocked with delicate epacridacea reclinatas etc....I have cleaned a crack and its uglier than drilling holes.....I guess that's subjective though.

Macciza
6/04/2013
9:55:11 PM
Big G, I don't think he made any mention of 'Leave No Trace' . . . And what is your point anyway?

E. - Um well Telstar was probably climbed before you were born, and guess what. those new-fangled camming thingies did not really exist back then, and it is also somewhat likely that Keith may have taken pitons along to make a safe belay (not sure), and nuts/hexes have probably been bashed into this over the past 40 years or so (pretty sure)! The relevant fact of the matter is that you do not need cams to protect that climb . . .

Re- Eternity, I don't think it was as much of a garden as you may think, though certainly at that time in Oz climbing cliffs were usually cleaned in order to climb the cracks. In fact many of the now vegetated old,oldschool routes were a lot cleaner when they were originally climbed. I love the photo of John climbing Eternity is volleys with the hemp rope hanging down behind him . ..

I've cleaned cracks too - and recently one has been ring bolted despite obviously being a trad line - and that it is now far uglier than the cleaned crack, and thats not subjective!
TradOminous
6/04/2013
10:11:07 PM
On 6/04/2013 Big G wrote:
>Seen a photo of eternity or grey mist lately? Hardly 'leave no trace' is it?

No, but I walked by The Eternity not so long ago, and thankfully I did not see any shiny fixed protection every 2m. Modern sport climbing seems to revolve around 'leaving a trace', placing fixed protection, tick marks everywhere and writing the grade at the bottom of the climb, all to get your 15m of fame! Trad climbing definitely has far less impact!

Big G
7/04/2013
8:05:45 AM
On 6/04/2013 Macciza wrote:
>Big G, I don't think he made any mention of 'Leave No Trace' . . . And
>what is your point anyway?
>
The point is that the environmental vandalism argument is not a particularly valid argument.
One Day Hero
7/04/2013
2:07:35 PM
On 7/04/2013 Big G wrote:
>The point is that the environmental vandalism argument is not a particularly
>valid argument.

So popular ringbolted routes don't get de-vegetated and eroded, and the holds don't end up lighter in colour? Any negative impact which occurs on trad routes also occurs on sport routes, plus you have big shiny bolts all over the wall.
If you really think that a bit of lichen missing from a crack is as visually bad as a wall completely covered in rings, then there's no reasoning with you.

Anyway, my problem with sport climbing isn't just the aesthetics. I also don't like softc--k bolts all over softc--k routes leading to them being completely covered with softc--k climbers. If people are showing up, getting scared shitless, and then never coming back, that somehow makes me happy.

Big G
7/04/2013
3:40:57 PM
On 7/04/2013 One Day Hero wrote:
>On 7/04/2013 Big G wrote:
>>The point is that the environmental vandalism argument is not a particularly
>>valid argument.

>If you really think that a bit of lichen missing from a crack is as visually
>bad as a wall completely covered in rings, then there's no reasoning with
>you.
>
It wasn't my reasoning.

Read the thread.

Ps you can clearly be a c**k what ever type of climbing you do
One Day Hero
8/04/2013
10:13:18 AM
On 6/04/2013 Big G wrote:
>Seen a photo of eternity or grey mist lately? Hardly 'leave no trace' is
>it?

Sounds like your reasoning is "Those cracks are showing signs of climbing via lightening of the rock/removal of vegetation, therefore the same as gridbolting"

Feel free to correct me though

Big G
8/04/2013
11:08:07 AM
I was pointing out that the argument used by tradominous was not valid as all froms of climbing damage the environment.

like I said read the thread

Macciza
8/04/2013
11:48:33 AM
Hey G
Perhaps YOU should re-read the thread, rather then straw personing . . .

Maybe I can put it in a more urban context for you ...
Lets say there is a crack in wall (for whatever reason) - it happens sometimes . . .
Now some young punks come along and spray paint next it - that's vandalism!

So, now back out to natural environment . . .
Natural stuff grows, decays, falls apart etc etc but it all belongs there as part of nature
So then some young punks come along and add artificial (non-natural) permanent fixtures - that's vandalism . . .

Pretty bloody simple - even if somewhat idealistic . . .

Big G
8/04/2013
12:21:22 PM
>
>Pretty bloody simple - even if somewhat idealistic . . .

A tree grows and branches fall off, it's natural. A person comes along and climbs a tree and the branch snaps off - thats vandalism. Same as the person that comes along and spray paints the tree.

ps never heard the expression 'straw personing' - so can't reply to that

pps i'm all for trad climbing - i even do it occassionally

ppps i'm all for sport climbing - i even do that occassionally too

pppps i'm not for people putting others down based on their choice of activity
uwhp510
8/04/2013
12:22:09 PM
On 8/04/2013 Big G wrote:
>I was pointing out that the argument used by tradominous was not valid
>as all froms of climbing damage the environment.
>
>like I said read the thread

Because the degree of environmental damage is irrelevant? Just like how building an open cut coal mine to power an endangered sparrow mincing factory in the Galapogas Islands, is exactly the same as driving your Prius down to the shops to buy organic blue berries for $12 a punnet? They both damage the environment after all.

All of the "environmental" impacts of climbing trad routes (which mainly seem to surround the tragic loss of lichen... won't somebody think of the lichen?) exist for sport climbs as well. Plus you've got the bolting thing and (more likely than not) increased traffic on the routes.

No you read the thread (translation: my position is so obviously correct that anyone who doesn't agree should just keep re-reading the arguments and counter arguments until they agree with me.)

Snacks
8/04/2013
12:52:02 PM
On 8/04/2013 Big G wrote:
>>
>>Pretty bloody simple - even if somewhat idealistic . . .
>
>A tree grows and branches fall off, it's natural. A person comes along
>and climbs a tree and the branch snaps off - thats vandalism. Same as the
>person that comes along and spray paints the tree.
>
>ps never heard the expression 'straw personing' - so can't reply to that
>
>pps i'm all for trad climbing - i even do it occassionally
>
>ppps i'm all for sport climbing - i even do that occassionally too
>
>pppps i'm not for people putting others down based on their choice of
>activity


ppppps. remember, haters gonna hate.

 Page 2 of 4. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 65
There are 65 messages in this topic.

 

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