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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

Poll Option Votes Graph
Neil will cave in 3
8% 
Macca will get sick of pestering and stop it 3
8% 
The "authorities" will step in and mediate 1
3% 
Neil will drive up and retrobolt Macca's clacka 16
44% 
It will never end 2
6% 
"Neil.....I am your faather" 5
14% 
"I've always loved you, Macca" 2
6% 
"I had a faarm in Aaafricaa" 4
11% 

 Page 3 of 4. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 65
Author
How's the Neil/Macca thing gonna pan out?

Big G
8/04/2013
1:02:28 PM
On 8/04/2013 uwhp510 wrote:
>On 8/04/2013 Big G wrote:
>>I was pointing out that the argument used by tradominous was not valid
>>as all froms of climbing damage the environment.
>>
>>like I said read the thread
>
>Because the degree of environmental damage is irrelevant? Just like how
>building an open cut coal mine to power an endangered sparrow mincing factory
>in the Galapogas Islands, is exactly the same as driving your Prius down
>to the shops to buy organic blue berries for $12 a punnet? They both damage
>the environment after all.
>
>All of the "environmental" impacts of climbing trad routes (which mainly
>seem to surround the tragic loss of lichen... won't somebody think of the
>lichen?) exist for sport climbs as well. Plus you've got the bolting thing
>and (more likely than not) increased traffic on the routes.
>
>No you read the thread (translation: my position is so obviously correct
>that anyone who doesn't agree should just keep re-reading the arguments
>and counter arguments until they agree with me.)

I think if you did an assesment of the damage caused to the environment by a cleaned crack climb vs a bolted face climb the difference would be marginal. Both cause devegetation, both lead to traffic at the base of the climb and subsequently damage, cracks are microclimates for plants and animals. changing these cracks has a bigger impact than the addition of steel bolts.

...and whats wrong with thinking of the lichen?
One Day Hero
8/04/2013
1:13:51 PM
On 8/04/2013 Big G wrote:

>...and whats wrong of thinking of the lichen?

It makes bad grammars.

Miguel75
8/04/2013
1:20:15 PM
Far out x 2. This whole topic is getting freaking ridiculous. Can we all agree that climbing rocks is pretty freaking rad and drop the 'my way is better than your way' shenanigans.

It reminds me of the Simpsons episode where they have family therapy... I'll link to it later.

Eduardo Slabofvic
8/04/2013
1:25:54 PM
On 8/04/2013 Miguel75 wrote:
>Can we all
>agree that climbing rocks is pretty freaking rad

My way of climbing rocks is way more freaking rad than your way of climbing rocks

Miguel75
8/04/2013
1:40:01 PM
On 8/04/2013 Edward Oslabofvic wrote:
>On 8/04/2013 Miguel75 wrote:
>>Can we all
>>agree that climbing rocks is pretty freaking rad
>
>My way of climbing rocks is way more freaking rad than your way of climbing
>rocks

Given my recent performance on rock you're probably right;)

P.S. Your avatar is dumb!
martym
8/04/2013
2:02:38 PM
On 8/04/2013 Macciza wrote:
>So then some young punks come along and add artificial (non-natural) permanent
>fixtures - that's vandalism . . .

And if they're not so young... then it's culturally acceptable?

Big G
8/04/2013
2:14:30 PM

>
>It makes bad grammars.

in deeds it dose

Eduardo Slabofvic
8/04/2013
2:14:37 PM
On 8/04/2013 Miguel75 wrote:
>Your avatar is dumb!

My avatar is way more dumber than your avatar!

Big G
8/04/2013
2:18:20 PM

>
>And if they're not so young... then it's culturally acceptable?

if you are young you can't do anything culturally acceptable (in the eyes of the old)

Miguel75
8/04/2013
2:26:39 PM
On 8/04/2013 Edward Oslabofvic wrote:
>On 8/04/2013 Miguel75 wrote:
>>Your avatar is dumb!
>
>My avatar is way more dumber than your avatar!

Tru dat! ;)
uwhp510
8/04/2013
2:34:59 PM
On 8/04/2013 Big G wrote:
>I think if you did an assesment of the damage caused to the environment
>by a cleaned crack climb vs a bolted face climb the difference would be
>marginal.

Well as long as you think it, then its most likely true. Nothing beats proof by thinking about things.

>Both cause devegetation, both lead to traffic at the base of
>the climb and subsequently damage, cracks are microclimates for plants
>and animals. changing these cracks has a bigger impact than the addition
>of steel bolts.

Impact on what/whom? For flora/fauna, sure it probably makes crap all difference either way, but to person (climber or non-climber) a gridbolted crag is obviously way less naturey. Also, all of the other stuff pales into insignificance against the extra traffic that bolted stuff seems to get.

>...and whats wrong with thinking of the lichen?

Surely we can all agree that lichen is the enemy :) (I fuchen hate those little mossy, fungusy bastards!)

Big G
8/04/2013
3:19:35 PM
On 8/04/2013 uwhp510 wrote:
>On 8/04/2013 Big G wrote:
>>I think if you did an assesment of the damage caused to the environment
>>by a cleaned crack climb vs a bolted face climb the difference would
>be
>>marginal.
>
>Well as long as you think it, then its most likely true. Nothing
>beats proof by thinking about things.
>
I have a degree in ecology so my thinking does have some validity

For flora/fauna, sure it probably makes crap all difference either way,

It does make a difference

your argument against bolting a climb is its not as pretty?
uwhp510
8/04/2013
3:39:54 PM
On 8/04/2013 Big G wrote:
>I have a degree in ecology so my thinking does have some validity

So because you may have studied some related subject matter at some point in the past, the stuff you think seems right (which co-incidentally fits perfectly with your overarching ideology on this particular issue) is now verifiable fact?

>It does make a difference

You think...

>your argument against bolting a climb is its not as pretty?

Yep (amongst other things, provided we are to accept a fairly loose definition of "pretty")

Big G
8/04/2013
4:59:20 PM
On 8/04/2013 uwhp510 wrote:
>On 8/04/2013 Big G wrote:
>>I have a degree in ecology so my thinking does have some validity
>
>So because you may have studied some related subject matter at some point
>in the past, the stuff you think seems right (which co-incidentally
>fits perfectly with your overarching ideology on this particular issue)
>is now verifiable fact?

No, no such thing as facts in science. I suggested it gave my thinking some validity.

You seem happy to have an overarching ideology with nothing but your opinion to back it up. Why can't I?

Perhaps my ideology seems to fit with what I have studied because what I studied shaped my ideology.

I'm for trad climbing, I'm for sport climbing. I don't even care if people boulder but no one can realistically say their preferred climbing method is categorically better for the environment.


E. Wells
8/04/2013
5:07:32 PM
Indoor climbers can.

ajfclark
8/04/2013
5:15:13 PM
Not sure about that. Surely some of the chems that go into making the holds are pretty nasty?

Miguel75
8/04/2013
5:34:28 PM
On 8/04/2013 uwhp510 wrote:
>Surely we can all agree that lichen is the enemy :) (I fuchen hate those
>little mossy, fungusy bastards!)

Amen. There's nothing worse than having a fungus among us.

Snacks
9/04/2013
7:13:40 AM
On 8/04/2013 Big G wrote:
>On 8/04/2013 uwhp510 wrote:
>>On 8/04/2013 Big G wrote:
>>>I have a degree in ecology so my thinking does have some validity
>>
>>So because you may have studied some related subject matter at some point
>>in the past, the stuff you think seems right (which co-incidentally
>>fits perfectly with your overarching ideology on this particular issue)
>>is now verifiable fact?
>
>No, no such thing as facts in science. I suggested it gave my thinking
>some validity.
>
>You seem happy to have an overarching ideology with nothing but your opinion
>to back it up. Why can't I?
>
>Perhaps my ideology seems to fit with what I have studied because what
>I studied shaped my ideology.
>
>I'm for trad climbing, I'm for sport climbing. I don't even care if people
>boulder but no one can realistically say their preferred climbing method
>is categorically better for the environment.
>
>

Amen.
uwhp510
9/04/2013
8:58:02 AM
On 8/04/2013 Big G wrote:
>no one can realistically say their preferred climbing method
>is categorically better for the environment.

Earlier, Big G wrote:
>changing these cracks has a bigger impact than the addition of steel bolts.

Big G
9/04/2013
9:14:01 AM
tradominous wrote:

>Totally different scenarios!! And what is a 'genuine' sport route anyway?
>One is removing an act of environmental vandalism, the other is performing an act of environmental vandalism!

merely pointing out the flaw in this argument

Big G also wrote:
I'm for trad climbing, I'm for sport climbing.

I'm not anti anything except BS

 Page 3 of 4. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 65
There are 65 messages in this topic.

 

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