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Ethics

Olbert

28-Sep-2012
1:00:43 AM

Some people reckon it's bad ethics to rap clean routes...so I decided to ground up onsight (attempt) to clean a route that was harder than anything I had ever attempted at the creek. This was the result:

and this was my brush (once I had fallen off because of the dam dust!):

My gloves are in tatters because, whilst I still had the onsight to strive for I was forever cleaning out the crack with my hands.

Once I had cleaned it, I cruised it on toprope (f--- releading it after that effort!)


Cool Hand Lock

28-Sep-2012
6:45:28 AM

Your awesom.

You should post more often about yourself.


Miguel75

28-Sep-2012
9:04:52 AM

Looks like a lot of fun Ollie. Keep sharing pics and trip updates.

Nick Clow

28-Sep-2012
1:37:41 PM

> Some people reckon it's bad ethics to rap clean routes

It's certainly pretty poor form (in my view) if you 'can onsight 23/24', but choose to rap down Hungry Eyes at The Point in order to clean it (pre-inspect it, mark it with chalk) rather than attempt it ground up, if that's what you mean (and with reference to a previous thread)?

This is especially as the First Ascentionist climbed it ground up. I'm sure if you bumped into him at the bar of the Currarong Bowlers after a day's climbing he would tell you what a pu$$y you were.

PDRM

28-Sep-2012
2:17:39 PM

I thought Ethics was just East of Thurrey and South of Thuffolk

One Day Hero

28-Sep-2012
7:31:18 PM

On 28/09/2012 Nick Clow wrote:
>It's certainly pretty poor form (in my view) if you 'can onsight 23/24',
>but choose to rap down Hungry Eyes at The Point in order to clean it (pre-inspect
>it, mark it with chalk) rather than attempt it ground up, if that's what
>you mean (and with reference to a previous thread)?
>
Nick, tick the route, then start yapping about how good you are. I'm sorry, but boldly onsighting the perfectly safe gr20 bit, then boldly dogging up the perfectly safe gr23 bit just isn't enough to impress me.

Interestingly, Olbert is one of the many people who joined in the sending festivities on Hungry Eyes once it'd been cleaned (although I'm not sure that he ever ticked it, owing to his inferior sequence). I bet he wishes he'd approached that Indian Creek route the smart way.........as it stands, he took time out of his holiday to clean a route for the locals, and didn't even tick the thing. What a waste of time!


davidn

28-Sep-2012
7:41:41 PM

Look, this would be a fantastic and interesting debate between neo-new-age-hardmen, but after the complete washout of the bet and subsequent radio silence, it's hard to get excited about this stuff.

If that wasn't clear, the thesis is who cares. At least Olbert's post had some small semblance of a trip report...


IdratherbeclimbingM9

28-Sep-2012
7:49:20 PM

On 28/09/2012 davidn wrote:
>Look, this would be a fantastic and interesting debate between neo-new-age-hardmen,
>but after the complete washout of the bet and subsequent radio silence,
>it's hard to get excited about this stuff.
>
>If that wasn't clear, the thesis is who cares. At least Olbert's post
>had some small semblance of a trip report...

Hmm.
I'd wager the bet is still 'on'...

On 28/09/2012 One Day Hero wrote:
>I bet he wishes he'd approached that Indian Creek route the smart way.........as it stands,
>he took time out of his holiday to clean a route for the locals, and didn't
>even tick the thing. What a waste of time!

You are not always on the money ODH.
If Olly had fun then it wasn't a waste of time.
~> Please remind me why you climb again?
☻


davidn

28-Sep-2012
7:54:23 PM

On 28/09/2012 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>If Olly had fun then it wasn't a waste of time.

You know what, I unequivocally agree with you on this!

*shocked* !

One Day Hero

28-Sep-2012
8:16:32 PM

On 28/09/2012 davidn wrote:
>On 28/09/2012 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>>If Olly had fun then it wasn't a waste of time.
>
>You know what, I unequivocally agree with you on this!
>
>*shocked* !

On 28/09/2012 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>You are not always on the money ODH.
>If Olly had fun then it wasn't a waste of time.

I reckon that that'll be the last attempt Ollie makes at going ground up on a disused, dirty Indian Creek route..........what's your prediction, M9? :)

>~> Please remind me why you climb again?

I climb because I love grovelling around with my shoes and mouth full of dirt. Sliding out of sandy cracks, clinging on in desperation while frantically hacking vegetation out of a gear placement, the taste of batshit in my mouth as I sweep debris off the the jug above my head.................actually, I hate that crap, that's why I could never get into caving!

I like doing cool moves on interesting holds, made of beautiful clean rock, up soaring lines in stunning locations. Unfortunately, most of the time, such conditions don't occur in nature. Good climbing usually requires prior preparation. Most experienced climbers know this, the rest either live in denial or Nati...............or they're choss grubbing old troglodytes who probably also enjoy caving :)


IdratherbeclimbingM9

28-Sep-2012
8:28:02 PM

On 28/09/2012 One Day Hero wrote:
>On 28/09/2012 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>>You are not always on the money ODH.
>>If Olly had fun then it wasn't a waste of time.
>
>I reckon that that'll be the last attempt Ollie makes at going ground
>up on a disused, dirty Indian Creek route..........what's your prediction,
>M9? :)
>

I think he was sufficiently impressed with his effort that he felt the need to post about such adventure on Chocky, and an adventure isn't necessarily defined by a successful ascent!

>>~> Please remind me why you climb again?
>
>I climb because I love grovelling around with my shoes and mouth full
>of dirt. Sliding out of sandy cracks, clinging on in desperation while
>frantically hacking vegetation out of a gear placement, the taste of batshit
>in my mouth as I sweep debris off the the jug above my head.................actually,
>I hate that crap, that's why I could never get into caving!
>
>I like doing cool moves on interesting holds, made of beautiful clean
>rock, up soaring lines in stunning locations. Unfortunately, most of the
>time, such conditions don't occur in nature. Good climbing usually requires
>prior preparation. Most experienced climbers know this, the rest either
>live in denial or Nati...............or they're choss grubbing old troglodytes
>who probably also enjoy caving :)

~> I know someone like that! Heh, heh, heh.

Re; Interesting/beautiful/clean/soaring/location...
>Unfortunately, most of the time, such conditions don't occur in nature. Good climbing usually requires prior preparation.
?
~> What was your recent comment about the Warrumbungles again? If I recall correctly it seems to be an exception to your statement?
Heh^x3
☺

One Day Hero

28-Sep-2012
8:57:38 PM

On 28/09/2012 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>~> What was your recent comment about the Warrumbungles again? If I recall
>correctly it seems to be an exception to your statement?

Meh, I don't recall having to excavate any dirt and bushes at the Bungles. The routes I did were all pretty clean, probably due to the relatively high traffic they see (combined with low rainfall and thin soil on top, which results in minimal silting of the routes).

Moonarie is another place where it seems that one can expect to find routes in good condition, even if they haven't been climbed in ages. Coolum, on the other hand, is a fuching nightmare. There's some sort of wierd, greasy dust which blows in from the surrounding farmland and settles on all the holds. Needs brushing and wet wipes before the routes are climbable...........ground up dogging style cleaning though, so Nick would approve.

Wendy

28-Sep-2012
9:23:02 PM

On 28/09/2012 One Day Hero wrote:

>
>Moonarie is another place where it seems that one can expect to find routes
>in good condition, even if they haven't been climbed in ages.

I don't know about that - my last trip to Moonarie, I did a stack of the long moderate routes I'd never done before, and I climbed on a lot of moss. And a lot of choss. And a dead goat.

widewetandslippery

28-Sep-2012
9:31:10 PM

On 28/09/2012 Wendy wrote:
>On 28/09/2012 One Day Hero wrote:
>
>>
>>Moonarie is another place where it seems that one can expect to find
>routes
>>in good condition, even if they haven't been climbed in ages.
>
>I don't know about that - my last trip to Moonarie, I did a stack of the
>long moderate routes I'd never done before, and I climbed on a lot of moss.
> And a lot of choss. And a dead goat.

Remember its not beastiality if the goat doesn't push back.

Ollie your post reminds me of the joke, what's the similarity between fat chicks and mopeds: both fun to ride but your mates don't have to see you do it

Olbert

29-Sep-2012
4:07:21 AM

On 28/09/2012 One Day Hero wrote:
>>~> Please remind me why you climb again?
>I like doing cool moves on interesting holds, made of beautiful clean
>rock, up soaring lines in stunning locations.

This route looked beautiful, clean and it was certainly a soaring line! (No interesting holds though, only a crack). I wasn't actually planning to do this route, I was actually planning to do a much easier route nearby but when I saw this line, a 45m soaring corner crack at 5.11+ (a grade I hadn't yet attempted at the Creek), I couldn't say no. This line called to me. It was also a 3 star route (out of 4 - and 4 stars were reserved for routes like Supercrack).

When I got on it I realised that it was completely covered in a thick layer of dust, probably due to the fact they had a wet summer and this was very early season for this sunny crag. I was too inspired though and kept climbing. I fell off on the crux (thin hands) because every single move had to be cleaned of dust first. I reckon I would have shitted in the onsight if it was clean, and I did cruise it on toprope afterwards. Although I wouldn't wanna do it again, I'm kinda glad I did it in a way.

Wendy

29-Sep-2012
8:02:33 AM

That's amazing it was so grotty. In two weeks at the creek, I didn't do a single grotty route. I know the rock's soft, and the ground was dusty as, but I didn't come off the climbs looking like that!

Nick Clow

30-Sep-2012
12:54:50 PM

ODH

Mate, there are two things that you frequently do on CS:
1) rant on about the 'pussification' (you even coined the phrase) of climbing; and
2) give some innocent newby/bumbly a flaming for asking something mildly silly.

For the most part, I generally find myself in agreement with your sentiments under 1 and confess to guilty amusement under 2.

You must be able to see the contradiction, given 1) above, that you rapped down Hungry Eyes without even trying to onsight it. Did you have to really get stuck into that small cobweb to clean the route? This is not a marginally-protected 27, it's a 23. And there are harder things at the grade (as you would find out if you fulfilled your pledge and got on The Rage This Season : )

In short: you are a pussy, you drive a pussy car, you live at No 1 Pussy Street - just admit it - you are the mayor of Pussy Town.

simey

30-Sep-2012
5:20:48 PM

On 30/09/2012 Nick Clow wrote:
>ODH...
>In short: you are a pussy, you drive a pussy car, you live at No 1 Pussy Street - just admit it - you are the mayor of Pussy Town.

I reckon that a term such as 'Mayor of Pussy Town' should be judged on significantly different criteria than that listed above. And from my limited knowledge I don't think ODH would qualify for such a grand title.

One Day Hero

30-Sep-2012
10:29:10 PM

On 30/09/2012 Nick Clow wrote:
>You must be able to see the contradiction, given 1) above, that you rapped
>down Hungry Eyes without even trying to onsight it. Did you have to really
>get stuck into that small cobweb to clean the route? This is not a marginally-protected
>27, it's a 23.

You're touching on a couple of really good themes there Nick, could probably get a worthwhile magazine article out of it. However, the short version goes like this (and I think a lot of other climbers might be able to relate)

The most difficult routes for me to get on are in the band around what I "should" onsight. I get on easier routes without too much thought, because I know there's a high chance of success, and the harder ones because there's little chance of success (hence no pressure). Between those two zones of cheerful onsighting and merry dogging lies a band of suffering and misery.........or on a good day, actually feeling like a proper climber :)

Anyway, long story short, I got schooled by a friend of mine who is extremely tactically savvy and honest with himself. The basic message, there are 5 options;

1) get better (not gonna happen, too old and been doing it too long)
2) cut the jibber jabber and get onsighting (wasn't happening owing to a traumatic experience on Sail the Nullabor)
3) walk away (shame to miss out on obvious classics)
4) admit that you're a pussy, then do the route as best you can
5) allow other people to prepare the route for you, then draught up behind them and pretend that you're 'ard

That's it, no other options. Hoping that "something will change for the better in the future" is wishy hippy bullshit. With this enlightenment, I happily chose option 4) and have had great fun ticking a bunch of hard Point Perp routes in good style (after working them in poor style). It seems that Nick has settled for the odd half arsed attempt at 2), whilst dreaming of 1), and will probably settle for 3) or maybe 5) for most of those Windjammer routes.
>
>In short: you are a pussy, you drive a pussy car, you live at No 1 Pussy
>Street - just admit it - you are the mayor of Pussy Town.

Not the mayor, but definitely on the electoral role :) Now, I have to run off and go down, down, down, down, down.......


Miguel75

30-Sep-2012
10:54:30 PM

On 30/09/2012 One Day Hero wrote:
>Not the mayor, but definitely on the electoral role :) Now, I have to
>run off and go down, down, down, down, down.......

That Kmart ad is now stuck in my head; 'down down, prices are down!'

There are 24 messages in this topic.