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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 2 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40
Author
Arapiles Rehab at Squeeze Boulder
One Day Hero
18/04/2013
3:11:39 PM
On 18/04/2013 gfdonc wrote:
>For my part, I generally walk from camp to anything up to the Pharos,
>but respect the rights of others to drive their car along the road if they
>choose to.

Really? So you'd drive up the road to go to Yesterday Gully........that'd save all of 10 minutes, but we have to keep the road open to respect people's rights?

When did climbers get so lazy?
Wendy
18/04/2013
3:32:15 PM
One of the first times I went climbing with Damo, he made me walk all the way from camp to Kitten Wall. It was quite a shock to a lazy Natimuk climber who would have just driven all the way round to the summit. I guess he was just trying to impress me because I had nice boobs. I am obviously way too pliable because I agreed to. It did seem a little silly having driven into the camp ground to drive back out, but nevertheless, lazy local wins out - i'd drive next time ...

As to when climbers got so lazy - i think they've been that lazy for a long time. I can remember dramas about people driving cars closer to crags and campsite and clearing more space as long as i've been climbing.
gfdonc
18/04/2013
4:04:12 PM
Just for the record, I was counting Pharos Gully when I referred to the Pharos.

& climbers of course are lazy .. see how the middle of the Pines is far less occupied since they kept the cars out ...

Will_P
19/04/2013
11:49:51 AM
On 17/04/2013 nmonteith wrote:
>I reckon they should just permanently gate that road. Carparks at either end and make everyone walk.

Amen.

[And I live in Victoria]

Climboholic
2/05/2013
12:21:05 AM
Closing the road with gates makes sense, even if I don't think it's necessary.

But what is spreading obstacles around a place that regulary gets a lot of foot traffic at night supposed to achieve? Are they trying to take out drunk people before they get stuck in squeeze boulder?

Trying to revegetate squeeze boulder seems pretty futile to me. Might as well throw branches around the base of plaque wall - less distance to walk for firewood :-P
kieranl
2/05/2013
9:16:31 AM
This post leaves me flabbergasted. It's probably a troll but I'll bite anyway.

On 2/05/2013 Climboholic wrote:
>But what is spreading obstacles around a place that regulary gets a lot
>of foot traffic at night supposed to achieve? Are they trying to take out
>drunk people before they get stuck in squeeze boulder?
>
I think it's supposed to restrict where people walk. Only a retard would expect that you can walk around Arapiles off-road at night without a torch without risk of harming yourself. Actually until the roadworks, which coincided with the rehab walk you were probably as much risk on the road as off it.

>Trying to revegetate squeeze boulder seems pretty futile to me. Might
>as well throw branches around the base of plaque wall - less distance to
>walk for firewood :-P
So rehabilitation of degraded sites is pointless. It's been pretty successful in some parts of Arapiles that were very heavily degraded, why not here?
But I suspect that you just enjoyed throwing of a quick troll and know you're talking crap.

Snacks
2/05/2013
9:27:41 AM
I think his point is that it would be similar to walking into an open cut coal mine and spreading a few grass seeds around the place...

Though, no harm in trying.
kieranl
2/05/2013
9:52:08 AM
On 2/05/2013 Snacks wrote:
>I think his point is that it would be similar to walking into an open cut
>coal mine and spreading a few grass seeds around the place...
>
>Though, no harm in trying.
He actually seems to be saying that there is harm in trying, ie creating obstacles for people to trip over that don't achieve any benefit.

Can someone justify this nihilistic view that trying to rehabilitate this area is futile? Is it just a thought bubble or do you have evidence to back it up? I can cite evidence that rehabilitation of severely damaged areas at Arapiles works. Look at the area adjacent to the Gums carpark and that just east of the Plaque parking area and that just west of the fence at the Gums camping area. All heavily degraded 20 years ago and now greatly recovered. Large bits of the area east of the Plaque parking spot were very similar to the area around the squeeze boulder.

Snacks
2/05/2013
10:04:47 AM
I see your point.

Though I do prefer when areas are signposted and cordoned off as opposed to random obstacles scattered around the place.
jimfalla
2/05/2013
10:14:51 AM
On 2/05/2013 kieranl wrote:

>> Only a retard would expect that you can walk around Arapiles off-road at night without a torch without risk of harming yourself. Actually until the roadworks, which coincided with the rehab walk you were probably as much risk on the road as off it.

Kieranl, I take exception to this comment.

As the great politically correct poster, your use of the put down "retard" is especially offensive.

Second, walking through the bush (or arapiles) at night by the starlight is one of lifes great experiences and many of us do it without any harm to ourselves or the environment.

If you want to stop erosion at the arapiles take your bloody shoes off and walk barefoot.

kieranl
2/05/2013
10:18:52 AM
I suspect that this was an opportunistic rehab project as in : "We've got this heavy machinery here rebuilding the road, could you just pick up a few logs and dump them around here to provide some traffic management".
Not a bad idea for some quick and free rehab work.
What puzzles me the most is that people seem to have so much trouble getting their heads around this. It's just like rocket science, (in the sense that all rocket science is quite simple: if there's an explosion under an object the object will move).

Duang Daunk
2/05/2013
10:31:43 AM
You missed jimfalla's first point.

kieranl vs the world? Should this thread be renamed Low-Altitude Brawl at Arapiles?
climberman
2/05/2013
11:01:49 AM
Kieren,

I'm certainly not arguing against the fact that it's a crying shame that some 'aggressive' methods have to be taken in rehab works. But you're playing at the interface of recreation, human nature, international cultural understandings, education and environmental restoration.
You're also, ahem, 'more experienced' and so have a range of background life experience to draw on. A 23 year old from suburban Oslo (or Melbun) just might not see the same thing as you when looking at a bunch of logs in the bush in the boondocks of Australia on a cold and windy evening.
Successful enviro restoration needs to balance this.
An ecologically awesome action which fails to take into account the general failings of the local available humanity is just a great piece of theory rolled up into action to be a WOFTAM.
Saying 'but everyone should just know and be nice' is cool, and I wish that fixed things, but it doesn't, never did and obviously will continue not to at this location.

..::- Chris -::..
2/05/2013
11:22:00 AM
*Sigh* Retro-Logging the squeeze boulder car park........ My old driving instructor would be rolling over in his passenger seat if he knew.....

The logs i believe were installed not to stop erosion, but because of the parking style of the modern generation of drivers......


Below is a letter to Parks Vic from a local Natimukien...

....."When will these animals learn to just leave our car parks alone, use them as the original driver first parked there...... in true reverse style........ without all these fancy modern safety devices.......Now days all ya see is these Gen Y drivers, ipods blazing, with their fan-dangled reverse cams (pun) and reverse assist.... No idea how to park in true style, like in the 70's & 80's when the world was perfect.......

It should only be parked like it was done in the old days, one arm on the wheel, the other over the passenger head rest, head turned....."

Yep.... Slow morning at work.... ;-)
kieranl
2/05/2013
11:35:35 AM
On 2/05/2013 Dumb Dork wrote:
>You missed jimfalla's first point.
>
No, I missed his entire post because I was replying to an earlier one. If anyone was offended, which I extremely doubt, I apologise, must have been channelling ODH for a moment

On 2/05/2013 climberman wrote:
>Kieren,
Not the correct spelling. I usually don't fuss about it because people misspell my name all the time thinking it doesn't matter, but it's not hard to get it right. But I digress...

>
>I'm certainly not arguing against the fact that it's a crying shame that
>some 'aggressive' methods have to be taken in rehab works. But you're playing
>at the interface of recreation, human nature, international cultural understandings,
>education and environmental restoration.
>You're also, ahem, 'more experienced' and so have a range of background
>life experience to draw on. A 23 year old from suburban Oslo (or Melbun)
>just might not see the same thing as you when looking at a bunch of logs
>in the bush in the boondocks of Australia on a cold and windy evening.
>
>Successful enviro restoration needs to balance this.
>An ecologically awesome action which fails to take into account the general
>failings of the local available humanity is just a great piece of theory
>rolled up into action to be a WOFTAM.
>Saying 'but everyone should just know and be nice' is cool, and I wish
>that fixed things, but it doesn't, never did and obviously will continue
>not to at this location.
>

Which is just a long-winded way of saying it's the tragedy of the commons.
One of the reasons I'm quite happy to keep banging on about this is to raise awareness, which, I think, matters. I'd rather not see lots of signs and barriers about the place and those things cost money.
So keep on telling me that people really don't understand simple things and I'll happily keep telling people to open their eyes and think.

Duang Daunk
2/05/2013
12:03:53 PM
On 2/05/2013 kieranl wrote:
>On 2/05/2013 Dumb Dork wrote:
>>You missed jimfalla's first point.
>>
>No, I missed his entire post because I was replying to an earlier one.
>If anyone was offended, which I extremely doubt, I apologise, must have
>been channelling ODH for a moment
>
Jimfalla post appeared that way to me.

>On 2/05/2013 climberman wrote:
>>Kieren,
>Not the correct spelling. I usually don't fuss about it because people
>misspell my name all the time thinking it doesn't matter, but it's not
>hard to get it right. But I digress...
>
>>

Incorrect name spelling?
Gosh that's daft! Do you not see how nonsensical it is to have those two statements in the one post?

As I am offended now too, I am going out to the shed to make a sign.
Free Firewood.
I know just the place at Araps for it.
kieranl
2/05/2013
12:14:52 PM
On 2/05/2013 Duang Daunk wrote:
>
>Incorrect name spelling?
>Gosh that's daft! Do you not see how nonsensical it is to have those two
>statements in the one post?
>

It's called irony.
climberman
2/05/2013
12:18:26 PM
Apoligies on the typo.

No, not really a tragedy of the commons. It's about realistic management approaches. You (we) can choose to manage with human nature in mind, or not. How's that reminding people working for ya ?

Agreed on signs though. Fk me Australia has a love affair with signs. Going to my local beach is now some weird exercise in advice avoidance about how I might die or where I can walk. You'll note I didn't propose signs. I still don't.
kieranl
2/05/2013
12:34:15 PM
On 2/05/2013 climberman wrote:
>Apoligies on the typo.
>
No problims. Just niggles me occasionally and it seemed a good time to mention it when I was baiting the troll.
>No, not really a tragedy of the commons. It's about realistic management
>approaches. You (we) can choose to manage with human nature in mind, or
>not. How's that reminding people working for ya ?
>
It looks ToC to me but that's not a point worth arguing about. As I said before I suspect that it was a bit of opportunistic work that didn't cost anything to the park.
As to reminding people, at least a few are reading this thread and won't just walk past obliviously.
maxdacat
2/05/2013
1:18:24 PM
If they close the road how are you going to belay from your car seat on Plaque wall?

 Page 2 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40
There are 40 messages in this topic.

 

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