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Ethical Dilemma

One Day Hero

25-Jun-2012
2:45:39 PM

No, nothing to do with bolts. This is a crag etiquette question brought about by an incident which occurred at Nowra yesterday.

A group of 3 from Sydney were projecting their various projects, one of which was that 24 on the right half of the pocket wall (just left of the 20 with the french name). An unidentified group from Canberra were working the 20 just to the left of this route (the one which fights to avoid being a crack climb).

Anyway, while the Sydney crew were off round the corner, the Canberra guys dead ended at the last bolt of their route and decided to back off and clean the gear. At this point they had a few options;

1) Thread the ring and lower off
2) Leave a biner
3) Leave a draw, then ask the blokes on the 24 to retrieve it after their next shot
4) Tension across to the 24, pinch the draw off that route (the one you clip in the middle of the crux), clip it to their own bolt, loweroff cleaning all their draws, then leave without saying anything?!?!?

I probably don't need to point out that the mystery dudes chose option 4, which then left the Sydney climber at the crux of his next redpoint shot with his crux draw mysteriously relocated 2m left, and none on his harness! I was initially shocked that someone would pull a stunt like that and wrote the guys off as fukwits, but the more I think about it, the more it seems like a pretty smooth maneuver deserving a bit of credit.

What's the popular view of this rather original bit of problem solving?

patto

25-Jun-2012
2:55:38 PM

Controversy between sports climbers is like watching the OC.


nmonteith

25-Jun-2012
3:02:18 PM

Good to see some of my new bolts getting used.

Mystery drawswapping climbers = fwits

Wendy

25-Jun-2012
3:17:07 PM

i don't know that it's that original - i had my draw on the bolt on Procul mysteriously relocate onto the bolt on l'inconscience tranquil on me years ago.


rodw

25-Jun-2012
3:33:08 PM

Lol. Id like to be at the crag when both groups find themselves at Nowra again on the same day....

One Day Hero

25-Jun-2012
3:42:44 PM

Actually Rod, they did confront the guys a bit later (I missed it, unfortunately). But it sounds like it was more awkward than spectacular, with the guilty party just mumbling something as they hurried off.

baz74

25-Jun-2012
3:44:05 PM

Jesus ODH (or as you referred to yourself - 'unknown Canberra climber'), can't you dog to the chains on a 20? Or maybe back jump, or aid up the crack; anything would be better than stealing somebodies draw of their 10m project. (would be hard to look up and see it missing - the third bolt on we do OK must be at what 7m?). Anyway next time own up - none of this 'I once knew a bloke....'

One Day Hero

25-Jun-2012
3:55:24 PM

On 25/06/2012 baz74 wrote:
> (would be hard to look up and see it missing - the third
>bolt on we do OK must be at what 7m?).

:D Yeah, it does seem amazing that the bloke didn't notice until he got there.

>Anyway next time own up - none of this 'I once knew a bloke....'

I kinda wish I'd thought of this trick myself, but unfortunately can't take credit for it.

I have a nagging feeling that I spotted davidn at the crag yesterday (only ever met him once, forgotten what he looks like). Hey dave, are you the culprit? As far as I'm concerned, if you did this your credibility has gone up (not that there was any room for downward movement)


Eduardo Slabofvic

25-Jun-2012
4:06:28 PM

How totally lame. I mean taking a draw when there were at least 20 or 30 other ones to take as well. some people have no imagination.


Pat

25-Jun-2012
4:55:47 PM

A real maestro would have relocated all the draws across to the neighbouring climb.


shortman

25-Jun-2012
6:21:25 PM

Just trad climb Damo. Easy solution.


E. Wells

25-Jun-2012
7:37:38 PM

I think what they did is codswallop and poppyc--ks and they should be punched in the stomach then karate chopped on the back of the neck then kicked in the stomach again but not too hard, but hard enough, just not too hard....and thats just because of WHERE THEY ARE FROM.


Duang Daunk

25-Jun-2012
8:03:10 PM

On 25/06/2012 dangermouth wrote:
>I think what they did is codswallop and poppyc--ks and they should be punched
>in the stomach then karate chopped on the back of the neck then kicked
>in the stomach again but not too hard, but hard enough, just not too hard....and
>thats just because of WHERE THEY ARE FROM.

Bloody good thing they weren't from Vic then.

TonyB

26-Jun-2012
7:48:25 AM

The question appears to be "Is theft OK?"


rodw

26-Jun-2012
8:09:47 AM

It wasn't theft as they didn't steal anything...just moved it because they do not know how to thread a bolt? ..with that in mind what were they going to do if they got to the anchors?


Sabu

26-Jun-2012
9:07:53 AM

On 25/06/2012 Pat wrote:
>A real maestro would have relocated all the draws across to the neighbouring
>climb.

This would've been funny.

spicelab

26-Jun-2012
10:58:21 AM

On 26/06/2012 rodw wrote:
>It wasn't theft as they didn't steal anything

I'd argue that it was theft, because it potentially cost the climber the send on the 24.

And who's to know whether denying such a life-affirming achievement could trigger some sort of psychological illness ultimately ending in suicide?


rodw

26-Jun-2012
11:09:32 AM

To true he might become so jaded about the pure pursuit of sport climbing and give up ropes all together and become a boulderer.

One Day Hero

26-Jun-2012
1:33:56 PM

On 26/06/2012 TonyB wrote:
>The question appears to be "Is theft OK?"

There's a few things which can be relied upon with Chocky. Good to see Tony maintaining his status as 'the bloke who just doesn't grasp what's going on'

TonyB

26-Jun-2012
1:46:48 PM

Anyone who has kids would have taught their kids the difference between asking to borrow and just taking. They would also have taught them to put things back that don't belong to them.
ODH can be excused, because he didn't have the brains to progress past kindergarten.

There are 31 messages in this topic.