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Author

Retrobolting at Arapiles

One Day Hero

22-Jun-2012
12:47:37 PM

Would people like to see a percentage of the easier routes at araps bolted so that the crag is accessible to a wider spectrum of the climbing community?


Eduardo Slabofvic

22-Jun-2012
1:36:04 PM

Too late to ask, its already happened

One Day Hero

22-Jun-2012
3:22:15 PM

I can assure you that it hasn't "happened", it's happening.

kieranl

22-Jun-2012
5:55:22 PM

On 22/06/2012 One Day Hero wrote:
>I can assure you that it hasn't "happened", it's happening.
I call "bullshit".

ARidgley

22-Jun-2012
6:17:06 PM

Where? I'm feeling ill. Please tell me it isn't so.
The easiest fully bolted route I know of is "Follow Your Nose" (22). There is also Cassandra, but that was an aid climb bolt ladder that has (apparently) been rebolted. I'm OK with that. Is there something else?

One Day Hero

22-Jun-2012
6:28:35 PM

On 22/06/2012 ARidgley wrote:
>Where? I'm feeling ill. Please tell me it isn't so.

Well, Kieran and his mates have placed toproping/lowering rings on dozens of routes, at least a few old pegs are now ringbolts, and pretty much all the old carrots (even a couple of ones which were redundant with a modern rack) are now rings or chunky fixed hangers. (I agree with the placement of a few of these bolts, not so much with others)

I don't think we'll see the full retrobolting of routes there for a long while yet, but I suspect that the days of routes with mostly excellent pro to a spicy runout then an easy solo/scramble down are numbered.

There's apparently still a few active choppers down there keeping the balance, who knows for how long though?

ARidgley

22-Jun-2012
7:21:44 PM

I don't have an issue with the really bad bolts (e.g. the one on Judgement Day) or even pegs being replaced by new bolts. They were in much better condition for the first ascentionist. I'm less happy with them being replaced with a ring, but a hanger? Well maybe. Personally, I think rings are dangerous as they can unclip.

Having toproping or lowering rings would certainly seem to be pushing it too far. Why not just set up a top rope anchor out of gear. It hardly takes very long. Do you know what routes these have appeared on?

Wendy

22-Jun-2012
7:22:53 PM

It's considerate of you to try and start all this controversy whilst i'm bored and recovering, Damo, but do you think maybe you really need to get out a bit? Go climb something or maybe just get laid?

One Day Hero

22-Jun-2012
7:29:48 PM

I'm going to Nowra for the w/e to meet up with Neil and Benjenga :) How's the shoulder feeling? Drugs?

Wendy

22-Jun-2012
7:42:31 PM

I wish I could take more drugs. If only i was the child of smackies, i'd have a natural tolerence of opiates. Instead, i just throw up. Oh, to be pleasantly zonked out on endone ... my shoulder hurts. We made it home. Only chucked up about once every100km or so. I looked so pathetic in the chemist in the sham that some tough country boy offered me his seat. I felt so pathetic i nearly cried. Did i mention my shoulder hurts? And I want to go on a climbing holiday? Somewhere warm?

One Day Hero

22-Jun-2012
7:54:39 PM

Somewhere warm with lots of one handed climbing? I'll see if I can think of anywhere :)

kieranl

22-Jun-2012
8:39:34 PM

On 22/06/2012 One Day Hero wrote:
>On 22/06/2012 ARidgley wrote:
>>Where? I'm feeling ill. Please tell me it isn't so.
>
>Well, Kieran and his mates have placed toproping/lowering rings on dozens
>of routes, at least a few old pegs are now ringbolts, and pretty much all
>the old carrots (even a couple of ones which were redundant with a modern
>rack) are now rings or chunky fixed hangers. (I agree with the placement
>of a few of these bolts, not so much with others)
>
>I don't think we'll see the full retrobolting of routes there for a long
>while yet, but I suspect that the days of routes with mostly excellent
>pro to a spicy runout then an easy solo/scramble down are numbered.
>
>There's apparently still a few active choppers down there keeping the
>balance, who knows for how long though?
Confirmed as bullshit.

ARidgley

22-Jun-2012
9:02:43 PM

On 22/06/2012 kieranl wrote:
>Confirmed as bullshit.
Good to hear. Cool bananas.

One Day Hero

22-Jun-2012
9:13:21 PM

On 22/06/2012 ARidgley wrote:
>On 22/06/2012 kieranl wrote:
>>Confirmed as bullshit.
>Good to hear. Cool bananas.

Wow, it isn't difficult to pacify you! When were you there last? Early 90's? Tell him about all the new bolts Kieran. I've lost count of how many there are.

The 5 on Kachoong were probably the most outrageous (1 protection bolt, 2 belay bolts, 2 rap bolts a meter away from the belay bolts). It's been pruned back to 1, but I did take this to be a bit of a sign of things to come when the pruners are no longer active.

kieranl

22-Jun-2012
9:50:57 PM

On 22/06/2012 One Day Hero wrote:
>On 22/06/2012 ARidgley wrote:
>>On 22/06/2012 kieranl wrote:
>>>Confirmed as bullshit.
>>Good to hear. Cool bananas.
>
>Wow, it isn't difficult to pacify you! When were you there last? Early
>90's? Tell him about all the new bolts Kieran. I've lost count of how many
>there are.
>
>The 5 on Kachoong were probably the most outrageous (1 protection bolt,
>2 belay bolts, 2 rap bolts a meter away from the belay bolts). It's been
>pruned back to 1, but I did take this to be a bit of a sign of things to
>come when the pruners are no longer active.
I don't usually have a problem with rap anchors in a popular area but that did appear excessive. Nor do I have a problem with replacing fixed pins with bolts. I gave a young guy a lift a few days back and he was psyching up for a go at Kachoong. I suggested he make sure he got in some really good stuff when he reached the roof and he said that there were some pins up on the right. He was a bit surprised when I said that they're 40 years old and possibly not reliable. I'm not suggesting that these should be replaced with a bolt, there's really good gear there, but to most people fixed gear is almost by definition bombproof. Why would it be in place on popular routes if it was crap?
But all this has nothing to do with your topic.
"Would people like to see a percentage of the easier routes at araps bolted so that the crag is accessible to a wider spectrum of the climbing community? "
And your statement that it's already happening.
I still call bullshit.


IdratherbeclimbingM9

22-Jun-2012
10:20:54 PM

On 22/06/2012 kieranl wrote:
>(snip) but to most people fixed gear is almost by definition bombproof. Why would it be in place on popular routes if it was crap? (snip)

_{I am using this as a trigger for a small soapbox rant on the way climbing is changing, not anything directed at kieranl.}

Bugger me. What ever happened to personal responsibility?
Do 'modern' climbers disengage their brain when they start out climbing a route?

~> I tend to think ODH is trying to raise a valid point, but some of the alienation he has created over the years on Chocky is now karma-ising his present thrust!
☺


nmonteith

22-Jun-2012
10:45:13 PM

It seems like quite a few so called 'experienced' climbers couldn't identify the dodgy clip-and-goes lower-offs I found on very popular routes at Nowra either. I'm not surprised they don't know the difference between good and bad bolts and pitons.

ARidgley

22-Jun-2012
10:46:30 PM

On 22/06/2012 One Day Hero wrote:
>Wow, it isn't difficult to pacify you! When were you there last? Early
>90's?

I trust people's word if that's what you mean. When someone accused of something tells me first hand that they haven't done it, I take them for their word. I trust the universe (other than the pins on Kachoong of course).

I was last there in 2004. Far too long ago, but certainly not the early 90's. At that stage I hadn't noticed too much other than a bolted thing on the cliff side of the Pilot Error pinacle. There were certainly 2 belay bolts on the belay ledge on Kachoong when I did it in the early 90s. I don't remember seeing any others.

If people are stupid enough to trust pins when there is good gear next to it then they deserve their Darwin award. We can't replace stupidity with bolts. However, if someone decided to replace the pin on Little Thor with a bolt then I wouldn't complain. There's nothing (to my memory) to back that up adequately, and that takes some BIG falls. I'm grey when it comes to this stuff other than to say fixed protection at Arapiles should be at a minimum but safe where it is critical. I see absolutely no reason for belay bolts anywhere at Arapiles. There is so much great gear.

Give me an accurate list of the new bolts and I will let you know my opinion (for what that's worth).

simey

23-Jun-2012
12:09:52 AM

On 22/06/2012 ARidgley wrote:
>There were certainly 2 belay bolts on the belay ledge on Kachoong when I did it in the >early 90s. I don't remember seeing any others.

I don't recall any belay bolts on Kachoong in the early 90s.

>However, if someone decided to replace the pin on Little Thor
>with a bolt then I wouldn't complain. There's nothing (to my memory) to
>back that up adequately, and that takes some BIG falls.

There haven't been pitons in Little Thor for at least 14 years. Good protection is available (and always has been). The climb is probably safer now as people take more responsibility and analyse their protection, rather than clipping some dubious pin and hoping for the best.

>I see absolutely no reason for belay bolts anywhere at Arapiles. There is so much great gear.

Most belay bolts have been placed to facilitate descents (usually to protect descent gullies that were getting hammered).

>Give me an accurate list of the new bolts and I will let you know my opinion
>(for what that's worth).

Sounds like you would be better off re-uniting yourself with Arapiles and experiencing any changes first-hand.

ARidgley

23-Jun-2012
9:37:54 AM

Fair enough.

I'm trying desperately to re-aquaint myself this summer. I doubt that will include Little Thor though. The Wobble is probably more representative of my current (in)abilities.

There are 35 messages in this topic.