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Retrobolting at Bungonia


IdratherbeclimbingM9

27-Jun-2012
5:24:16 PM

On 27/06/2012 PDRM wrote:
>Bolting caves? Not sure it arouses the passion of cavers the way it does
>climbers. Probably because doesn't change the 'doability' of a cave and
>hence the grading the way it does with climbs. You also don't have the
>same sport vs trad cave issue (which sounds weird when you swap those words).
>Bolts in caves? Guess they can be over-bolted but would we end up with
>chopping and bolt wars, probably not?
>
>Have done caves for my own jollies, guided them and instructed in cave
>rescue: as with climbing vs guiding vs rescue/IRA, all different contexts.
>
>PaulM
>
>Edit: I guess could change difficulty but stand by the comments

Thanks for an honest response.
I too have guided them, and instructed (in an informal sense), in cave rescue.
B22 Acoustic Pot, happened to make it into the 'Bungonia Caves' book after I participated in mapping it in the early days, soon after it was 'discovered'.
I had a lengthy break from visiting it, and when I last visited it after that break, I was dismayed to find all the 'pretties' in it vandalised...

I think your comments about bolts in caves are valid, as the first thought that came to my mind was 'if it has been retro'd, then it may have been a rescue', ... & that was almost immediately followed by 'even so, why would it require a bolt at half pitch height?'.
☺

One Day Hero

27-Jun-2012
5:45:23 PM

On 27/06/2012 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>No they didn't.
>
>As Tor pointed out, and your original post says...
>>Would more people go there if it had ringbolts every 2.5m
>
>~> Yes it is a loaded question, and I know that you know, that you didn't
>need a poll to tell you the answer!

Fair point, I got tripped up by my own biased wording. Anyway, if anyone actually feels that they are staying away from Bungonia because of a lack of bolts, but would go there if there were more bolts, I'd be interested in hearing the details of that.


nmonteith

27-Jun-2012
5:53:14 PM

On 27/06/2012 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>I think your comments about bolts in caves are valid, as the first thought
>that came to my mind was 'if it has been retro'd, then it may have been
>a rescue', ... & that was almost immediately followed by 'even so, why
>would it require a bolt at half pitch height?'.

You wouldn't place a glue-in ringbolt for a rescue. "Hold on we just have to wait or this glue to dry........ "


IdratherbeclimbingM9

27-Jun-2012
5:56:38 PM

On 27/06/2012 nmonteith wrote:
>You wouldn't place a glue-in ringbolt for a rescue. "Hold on we just have
>to wait or this glue to dry........ "

... so what cave are you referring to?

~> If it is the easy pitches out of B4/5 Fossil/Hogans, or B7/14 Steampipe/Canberra then that is a retro that deserves chopping as well!


Climbau

27-Jun-2012
7:34:01 PM

On 27/06/2012 nmonteith wrote:
>You wouldn't place a glue-in ringbolt for a rescue. "Hold on we just have
>to wait or this glue to dry........ "
Were you referring to glue-in rings? I assumed theyvwere the threaded HKDS that take the 16mm screw in rings. Hmm, makes quite annoyed that someone put glue-in ringbolts into a cave without it being an emergency. I don't remeber there being anything that couldn't be done with wire traces/slings/chimneying.


Rocksinmyhead

27-Jun-2012
8:45:33 PM

On 27/06/2012 Climbau wrote:
>Were you referring to glue-in rings? I assumed theyvwere the threaded
>HKDS that take the 16mm screw in rings. Hmm, makes quite annoyed that someone
>put glue-in ringbolts into a cave without it being an emergency. I don't
>remeber there being anything that couldn't be done with wire traces/slings/chimneying.

...and there's your "sport" v's " trad" ethic debate for caving.

Anyway, I would definitely have had already gone climbing at bungonia if some of the easier megaroutes had more bolts. Instead of umming and ahhing about whether I was good enough to get up the damn things, without getting hurt, or having to walk out in shame. But that doesn't mean I want to see more bolts, just that I was a better climber. Or how much would a hammer help?


nmonteith

27-Jun-2012
9:01:18 PM

On 27/06/2012 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>... so what cave are you referring to?
>
>~> If it is the easy pitches out of B4/5 Fossil/Hogans, or B7/14 Steampipe/Canberra
>then that is a retro that deserves chopping as well!

Sorry, I don't know the name. Benjenga might know - I did it with him. On the right side of the main road, kind of near Grill Cave. Narrow squeezy start for 100m to a 20m vertical tube (absiel) about 5m wide - then a whole lotta squeeze and narrow stuff horizontally until a dead end. At least 5 rings that I saw saw around the abseil point.


rodw

27-Jun-2012
9:16:24 PM

Acoustic pot I'm guessing


nmonteith

27-Jun-2012
10:07:18 PM

On 27/06/2012 rodw wrote:
>Acoustic pot I'm guessing

That sounds kind of familiar.


muki

27-Jun-2012
10:31:27 PM

On 27/06/2012 One Day Hero wrote:
snip...

>Araps received a decisive vote for "take your drill and shove it" (hope
>you picked up on that Kieran and the NBF). Seems that a lot of folk on
>chocky have gotten attached to the crag in its current state.

that "current state" would mean after a lot of bolting (belays or otherwise) by the NBF

>Bungers, on the other hand, had 18 people voting for retrobolting. Clearly
>some of them voted that way just to piss me off,

Yep

>however I'm pretty sure
>that there's a lot of serious votes in there. For those who voted to retro,
>can I ask how many have actually a) been down for a look? and, b) at least
>roped up and pulled off the ground?

is this the same as nm saying only vote if you've been there and "climbed" the routes
and don't you find the distaste for his methods on one hand,
and then and your own similar request "at least roped up and pulled of the ground"
on the other hand hypocritical ?


muki

27-Jun-2012
10:49:58 PM

Im so glad nm is bolting away madly in the Glueys and not here in the gramps any more.
but I find it interesting that now M9 is questioning his bolting ethic as being biased.
and even ODH is having a crack at him about all the steel going in in Nowra,
others are seeing the light, i got personal mails from people overseas in america asking why I was upset about all the bolts being put in by nm (you know who you are)
I love trad, will climb on bolts if the climbing is something special, once in Utah the best climb i did was on blue grama and was a bolted! but the climbing was amazing!
Ill say it again not everything un-protectable with trad needs to be bolted, there are some climbs by nm in the gramps that are complete and utter dross.
So why do people climb these steaming piles?......because they are bolted and easy.


wallwombat

27-Jun-2012
10:56:31 PM

On 27/06/2012 One Day Hero wrote:

>So, Bungers retro-voters, can you tell us what's going on? I'm curious.

Maybe it's because your question was -

" Would more people go there if it had ringbolts every 2.5m "

The answer is obvious.

If the question was " would YOU go there if it had ringbilts every 2.5m", the answer could be different.

Hence, your pole sucks.

One Day Hero

28-Jun-2012
12:26:24 AM

On 27/06/2012 wallwombat wrote:
>
>Hence, your pole sucks.

Your mum seems to think it's ok

One Day Hero

28-Jun-2012
12:46:37 AM

On 27/06/2012 muki wrote:

>is this the same as nm saying only vote if you've been there and "climbed"
>the routes
>and don't you find the distaste for his methods on one hand,
>and then and your own similar request "at least roped up and pulled of
>the ground"
>on the other hand hypocritical ?

Nope, I was trying to find out whether people avoid Bungonia because of what's really there, or because of what they think is there.

Sure, lots of the routes are full on, but Iron Curtain is pretty close to being a consumer sport route. If all anyone wants is a quality Bungers route without the death involved, it already exists. However, it's gr22, but that's no one's fault. 22 just seems to be the default grade the rock has formed itself into.

People have been attempting to establish 'first time at the gorge' climbs for decades, and they all end up being either 22, 24, or total death........and sometimes all of the above!

The point of my question was to inform the "I'd go to Bungers if there was a safe route to try" crowd of the existance of a classic four pitch route, which is not death by a long way. I even put in a gardening session a couple of months ago, so it should still be good and clean.


wallwombat

28-Jun-2012
1:19:51 AM

Crags that involve walking up a friggen big hill or walking down a friggen big hill, or both, are seldom crowded.

Just like Booroomba.


benjenga

28-Jun-2012
6:55:07 AM

On 27/06/2012 nmonteith wrote:
>On 27/06/2012 rodw wrote:
>>Acoustic pot I'm guessing
>
>That sounds kind of familiar.

Correct. Gold star.
I wonder if all this talk has convinced some old day climbers to venture down into the gorge and give it a try?? There is a couple easy (21,22) fully bolted routes in the gorge on little Thai wall but you may still need an inflatable boat to get to them :)


nmonteith

28-Jun-2012
7:41:18 AM

On 27/06/2012 muki wrote:
>Im so glad nm is bolting away madly in the Glueys and not here in the gramps
>any more.

Don't fret Muki. I come down to the Gramps a couple of times a year and bolt a few new routes just to keep you on your toes. Distressingly some others have been bolting down there as well. How dare they! Don't they know I have the sole mining rights to new routes in that part of the world? :-)

Wendy

28-Jun-2012
9:30:21 AM

On 28/06/2012 One Day Hero wrote:

>
>Nope, I was trying to find out whether people avoid Bungonia because of
>what's really there, or because of what they think is there.
>
>Sure, lots of the routes are full on, but Iron Curtain is pretty close
>to being a consumer sport route. If all anyone wants is a quality Bungers
>route without the death involved, it already exists. However, it's gr22,
>but that's no one's fault. 22 just seems to be the default grade the rock
>has formed itself into.
>
>People have been attempting to establish 'first time at the gorge' climbs
>for decades, and they all end up being either 22, 24, or total death........and
>sometimes all of the above!

Surely you don't see that as a problem anymore than i do? So you have to be reasonable on 22 to climb there. That's an unfortunate fact of life to be lived with but it's hardly the only crag in the world like that.
>
>The point of my question was to inform the "I'd go to Bungers if there
>was a safe route to try" crowd of the existance of a classic four pitch
>route, which is not death by a long way. I even put in a gardening session
>a couple of months ago, so it should still be good and clean.

I thought it was pretty well known that iron curtain was the intro route of the crag? Given it is shortish and bolted, i don't think that bolting the bejesus out of other routes is going to increase the popularity of bungonia. i reckon it's a rare case of bolt and they still won't come. It's too much effort and unknown when people have the ease of the blueys even closer to home.


nmonteith

28-Jun-2012
10:00:51 AM

I've spent 7 days there this year and never saw another climbing party.

spicelab

28-Jun-2012
11:27:24 AM

On 28/06/2012 wallwombat wrote:
>Crags that involve walking up a friggen big hill or walking down a friggen
>big hill, or both, are seldom crowded.
>
>Just like Booroomba.

Except for Ceuse.

Back on topic, I probably would go there more if there were ring-bolts every 2.5m, because I remain scarred from scaring myself shitless on Strangeness and Charm direct start 10 years ago.

There are 66 messages in this topic.