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Retrobolting at Nowra

One Day Hero

22-Jun-2012
2:55:34 PM

On 22/06/2012 nmonteith wrote:

>Slap the Donkey was a great example.

>People were instead having to stick clip from the ledge (10m
>off the deck) to clip this third bolt.

That isn't dangerous though, is it? Why is stick clipping off the ground the norm, but stick clipping off a massive ledge an unacceptable situation?

>If you didn't stick clip you had
>to commit to a hand traverse with heel hooks on slopers - with the last
>protection 3m below you feet just above a ledge and off to the right (the
>anchor of the previous route with long sling).

Yep, it was slightly creepy getting to that bolt.......but lots of people did it that way over the last ten years (or I'm the only one who was too silly to take a stick up).

But I'm ok with the retrobolt on that one, it did seem strange to have closely spaced bolts through the easy stuff and also a slightly tricky clip which was 'leader must not fall'

See how reasonable I am about accepting reasonable retrobolting :)

spicelab

22-Jun-2012
2:56:01 PM

On 22/06/2012 nmonteith wrote:
>Putting people in stupid danger is the only reason I can see why retroboltign
>should be ok.

Trouble is that some crags (e.g. South Central) already have bolts every 1-1.5m, yet it's still possible to deck from near the top of the route due to shutting down while trying to make a really desperate clip in a strenuous position.

I'm not sure there are many instances where retrobolting could fix this. Good belaying, however, is paramount.

Olbert

22-Jun-2012
3:00:02 PM

I would be in favour of retro-bolting a small amount of routes but not most of the routes.

Take for example the two routes Vague Flake and Spank the Donkey. I have done both routes and thought both routes were good and both had fewer bolts (possibly wrongly placed as well) than the average Nowra route. Vague Flake had enough bolts to keep it sane and safe enough and I didn't think the bolts were too badly placed (though I could be argued out of that position.)

Spank the Donkey on the other hand was a route which had not enough bolts to make it sane or safe and the extra spice added was in the form of serious injury potential. I remember there being a super dodgy few moves to clip the bolt above the ledge which involved heal hooking on an insecure slick sloper whilst in a horizontal position; in this position if either of the hands or the heel blew you were looking at falling a good few metres straight onto the ledge in a horizontal position. To put this in perspective I seem to remember that a fall from 1~2 metres on a building site was considered lethal.

I feel that Vague Flake is a route that shouldn't have any bolts added, and that Spank the Donkey needs a full retrobolt. I feel there shouldn't be a blanket "No retrobolting" nor should there be a "lets retro-bolt the f--- out of everything". I feel that the people doing the (retro)bolting should bare this in mind.

Post edit:
It seems Spank the Donkey was already discussed and some of my points are repetitive.

Olbert

22-Jun-2012
3:05:34 PM

On 22/06/2012 spicelab wrote:
>On 22/06/2012 nmonteith wrote:
>>Putting people in stupid danger is the only reason I can see why retroboltign
>>should be ok.
>
>Trouble is that some crags (e.g. South Central) already have bolts every
>1-1.5m, yet it's still possible to deck from near the top of the route
>due to shutting down while trying to make a really desperate clip in a
>strenuous position.
>
>I'm not sure there are many instances where retrobolting could fix this.
> Good belaying, however, is paramount.

That's really got nothing to do with retro-bolting, that's got to do with having a good belayer.

spicelab

22-Jun-2012
3:12:46 PM

On 22/06/2012 Olbert wrote:

>That's really got nothing to do with retro-bolting, that's got to do with
>having a good belayer.

That was meant to be my point. Belaying is quite often the limiting factor in many ground fall scenarios. Putting in more bolts won't change this.


nmonteith

22-Jun-2012
3:17:47 PM

No one is talking about wholesale retroing of every route. Most Nowra routes are already very well protected. It's just a handful of routes that we are talking about. Vague Flake is one of them. It seems like there is certainly no consensus - so I reckon the original bolts get replaced, and possibly repositioned slightly.

I retroed Spank the Donk on Thursday Olbert. Two new bolts between original bolts 2 and 3. Having to stick clip midway up a route is ludicrous. In fact I find most stick clipping ludicrous unless its a really bouldery start with a nasty landing.


climbau

22-Jun-2012
3:33:37 PM

some days I love runouts, other days not. I have a stick clip and I'm not afraid to use it!


wallwombat

22-Jun-2012
4:45:53 PM

I can't believe this thread still has life.

It's Fekin NOWRA. It's not Stanage Edge.

Bolt the shit out of it.

It will keep keep the masses away from the crags I like to climb at.

One Day Hero

22-Jun-2012
4:53:46 PM

On 22/06/2012 ratt07 wrote:
>
>neil just because a crack has bolts doesn't mean you have to clip them,
>its still a crack that will take so called bomber gear.it just means people
>who don't want to or aren't confident enough to place natural gear can
>still experience crack climbing

That argument would be slightly less ridiculous if there was no option to toprope these things. I don't think you can really 'experience crack leading' with a bolt every 2m anyway, why not just toprope?

That crack on the very nice wall was a filthy, muddy drain of a trad route and is now a filthy, muddy drain of a sport route.........whatever, no one will climb the thing either way. Shame about the other ones.

One Day Hero

22-Jun-2012
5:03:03 PM

I'd just like to point Neil to the results of the polls so far.

Retrobolting Nowra has a majority, retro debolting nowra has a slightly higher majority. Combining the results of these polls, it would seem that the popular opinion is 5% towards debolting


nmonteith

22-Jun-2012
5:06:09 PM

I just say actions speak louder than words Damo. Go out and start chopping and let us know how you go. See if you can drum up some donations for blades and the grinder from the SRC or punters at the crag.

Dr Nick

22-Jun-2012
5:42:11 PM

I reckon he should just chip big clipping jugs so that it's less likely someone takes a whipper with slack out.


IdratherbeclimbingM9

22-Jun-2012
10:04:30 PM

On 22/06/2012 nmonteith wrote:
>On 22/06/2012 plugngo wrote:
>>Does anyone really NOT enjoy a run-out every now and again, if they're
>>in the mood?
>
>I love a runout - but I don't like a runout that involves hitting the
>ground. And if I wanted runouts there are plenty of other crags to visit.
>Drive 15 minutes and you are at Point Perp.

A groundfall has always been a groundfall, but there are runouts and then there are run-outs.

Once upon a time a runout meant no gear or bad gear and the consequence was almost certain pain (or a lot worse), if the leader stuffed up.

Now run-out means sanitised spacing between good gear (or bolts), that seems to feel uncomfortable for the poor leader, involving generally non painful results should the leader fall.

On 22/06/2012 wallwombat wrote:
>I can't believe this thread still has life.
>
>It's Fekin NOWRA. It's not Stanage Edge.
>
>Bolt the shit out of it.
>
>It will keep keep the masses away from the crags I like to climb at.

+1

Heh, heh, heh.


Eduardo Slabofvic

22-Jun-2012
10:44:45 PM

On 22/06/2012 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>
>Once upon a time a runout meant no gear or bad gear and the consequence
>was almost certain pain (or a lot worse), if the leader stuffed up.
>
>Now run-out means sanitised spacing between good gear (or bolts), that
>seems to feel uncomfortable for the poor leader, involving generally non
>painful results should the leader fall.
>

There are those that think a run out is having their feet higher than the gear.

I'd agree with wallrodent, except, just like belaying with Gri Gris, it teaches bad habits which can translate to other situations (crags).

I think a good way to save your ankles from a ground fall at Nowra will be to pile up all the maccas trash into a big post modern midden under the route your doing to cushion your landing if you come off.

Actually, you could probably scope out the top out moves from the top of the midden. No need for any stick clipping

There are 34 messages in this topic.