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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 5 of 9. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 100 | 101 to 120 | 121 to 140 | 141 to 160 | 161 to 168
Author
Shooting In National Parks - NSW
PDRM
18/02/2013
5:24:43 PM
On 18/02/2013 billk wrote:

>If you read the blog, two people have been killed by hunters in NZ national
>parks in the past few years. That seems to provide an adequate basis for
>thinking there is a real risk of it happening here.

Hence the roaring trade in day-glo orange high visibility camo stuff in the US, it's hysterical. I get the animal colour blindness thing but it's still very funny to see.

P
technogeekery
18/02/2013
5:40:59 PM
egosan - sure, the argument will be framed in emotive terms by both sides (the 99% who don't want hunting in parks, as well as the lunatic fringe who support it :P)

So lets take the emotional arguments out, and simply ask our elected representatives to follow the will of their electorates.

I vote for no public shooting in any National Parks in Australia.
lacto
19/02/2013
8:42:00 AM
Ok so no shooting in national parks how do you remove the feral animals . Huge areas of the flinders ranges have been "hunted " by shooters and effectively controlled the goats and the reappearance and growth of much of the original flora and fauna is good to see . To control pigs I think the figure is you need to remove 95 +% of the population . Foxes are every where and I think it is quoted that Melbourne has the highest concentration in aaaustralia for sure shooting is not so good here- but horses for courses, some people in some parks would be a good idea . Most hunters would be ok but there are cowboys aplenty with guns so blanket opening not a good idea .
I dont have a gun or a gun licence any more so am not personally involved and allow known people to hunt foxes hares and cats on my place but not water birds , This year my 3 phase power line has scored 6 pelicans and 1 swan to my knowledge this year but at least we had 4 swan cygnets . Powercor has since put dangling reflectors on the power wires which so far appears to have stopped the bird fatalities
technogeekery
19/02/2013
9:12:19 AM
I'm not against shooting in NPs per se. In combination with baiting & trapping, poison, sterilisation etc it can be a tool (although by no means the most effective) for feral animal reduction.

I'm completely against the public being allowed to shoot in NPs under the guise of fefral animal control. Competent professionals under license, supervision & management by the NPs is fine. Amateurs & children with guns - no thanks.

Lets not give the "feral animal control" argument any more airtime - this is a very thin excuse for allowing recreational shooters access to NPs. I'm not quite sure why people like to kill animals for fun, but if that is what floats their boat, they can go for it. Just not in our National Parks.

Superstu
19/02/2013
9:32:01 AM
Recreational hunting will have no effect on feral pest numbers. To remove a feral pest requires a strategic approach. Select a target species in a given area, eradicate that species from the designated area using a variety of techniques (shooting, baiting, trapping, whatever), then periodically followup to monitor and respond to subsequent migrations back into the area. Randomly popping off animals across the board will have no effect what-so-ever. Animals breed and spread out to replace the ones you popped off remarkably effectively.

To give amateur hunters the credit of working for conservation is truly laughable. They are interested in trophy kills and having a good time. Foxes and wild dogs are not easy to track and shoot, so an amateur hunter will probably go out to shoot something else, whatever takes their fancy. Every park ranger has a story of having to clean up a mutilated wombat carcasse or kangaroo with arrow wounds. And there have been incidents of vehicles encountered in national parks carrying young sows or fawns under the taupaulin, ready to be released into the park. Do you seriously think amateur shooters are interested in conservation at all???? The shooters & fishers party demanded the dismantlement of the marine parks, a plan based on conservation science that would ironically result in more and bigger fish to catch.

> On 19/02/2013 lacto wrote:
> Ok so no shooting in national parks how do you remove the feral animals

Feral animals are currently dealt with using coordinated approaches involving baiting, trapping, professional shooters, and lots of monitoring to assess numbers and distribution so you can measure the effectiveness of the programs. There are volunteer programs to help with the monitoring if anybody is interested.

lacto
19/02/2013
11:33:24 AM
On 19/02/2013 Superstu wrote:
>Recreational hunting will have no effect on feral pest numbers. To remove
>a feral pest requires a strategic approach. Select a target species in
>a given area, eradicate that species from the designated area using a variety
>of techniques (shooting, baiting, trapping, whatever), then periodically
>followup to monitor and respond to subsequent migrations back into the
>area. Randomly popping off animals across the board will have no effect
>what-so-ever. Animals breed and spread out to replace the ones you popped
>off remarkably effectively
.
This certainly not the case in the Flinders Ranges

>To give amateur hunters the credit of working for conservation is truly
>laughable. They are interested in trophy kills and having a good time.
>Foxes and wild dogs are not easy to track and shoot, so an amateur hunter
>will probably go out to shoot something else, whatever takes their fancy.
>Every park ranger has a story of having to clean up a mutilated wombat
>carcasse or kangaroo with arrow wounds. And there have been incidents of
>vehicles encountered in national parks carrying young sows or fawns under
>the taupaulin, ready to be released into the park. Do you seriously think
>amateur shooters are interested in conservation at all???? The shooters
>& fishers party demanded the dismantlement of the marine parks, a plan
>based on conservation science that would ironically result in more and
>bigger fish to catch.
>
>
>
>Feral animals are currently dealt with using coordinated approaches involving
>baiting, trapping, professional shooters, and lots of monitoring to assess
>numbers and distribution so you can measure the effectiveness of the programs.
>There are volunteer programs to help with the monitoring if anybody is
>interested. No bloodsports sorry, but you'll learn how to recognise various
>animal prints, which is really cool.
>
>If you believe that feral animals are currently controlled , I think you'd believe that grazing the alpine park would reduce fire risks . feral animals (including humans ) are hugely damaging to all land areas so how are you going to sterilize feral pigs ,goats , camels donkeys cats , Indian mynahs , etc There is no nice easy way to remove these pests , shooting provides one way and not all shooters are idiots , I have had a group of vets shooting ducks in season on my neighbours property and our vet carries a rifle with him on his rounds and uses it when necessary
>

billk
19/02/2013
11:43:47 AM
On 19/02/2013 technogeekery wrote:
>I'm not against shooting in NPs per se. In combination with baiting & trapping,
>poison, sterilisation etc it can be a tool (although by no means the most
>effective) for feral animal reduction.
>
>I'm completely against the public being allowed to shoot in NPs under
>the guise of fefral animal control. Competent professionals under license,
>supervision & management by the NPs is fine. Amateurs & children with guns
>- no thanks.
>
>Lets not give the "feral animal control" argument any more airtime - this
>is a very thin excuse for allowing recreational shooters access to NPs.
>I'm not quite sure why people like to kill animals for fun, but if that
>is what floats their boat, they can go for it. Just not in our National
>Parks.

Not just amateurs and kids with guns - crossbows as well. So there are serious animal welfare concerns along with public safety concerns and concerns about endangered native animals getting shot.

If feral animals are a problem in national parks then they should be shot by professional shooters under tightly controlled conditions.

billk
19/02/2013
11:52:53 AM
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2013/s3693098.htm
rossco
19/02/2013
12:17:06 PM
Stuart's right Lacto, recreational hunters have little or no effect on feral animal numbers, and this is no different in the Flinders Ranges. The decline in goat numbers in the Flinders is not due to recreational hunters - you would have to be delusional to think they could shoot anywhere near the number of goats required in that kind of landscape - rather it is professional hunters employed by Parks, shooting from helicopters that has caused the decline.

salty crag
19/02/2013
7:39:34 PM
Agree with the recreational V pro shooters. I live in the country and know a lot of avid shooters/hunters. They are not the least bit interested in culling ferals (animals, not so sure about climbers and greenies). Most target trophy kills and avoid shooting 'breeding' stock to ensure consistent supply. Allowing amateur shooters into NP's to cull ferals is a wank, it's just redneck pollies looking after their own.
While on this topic I often see deer whilst traipsing around the vic range climbing and also see the damage they do. Why do Parks Vic allow these critters to not only survive but thrive?
amicus
19/02/2013
9:19:17 PM
Could somebody please be a little educated and check the parks they are releasing to shooters before we shoot our mouths off?, the information might surprise you

Macciza
19/02/2013
9:26:09 PM
Or be a bit educating?
http://www.wires.org.au/component/content/article/258.html

Which bit should be surprising . . .
Fizz
19/02/2013
9:29:11 PM
On 19/02/2013 amicus wrote:
>Could somebody please be a little educated and check the parks they are
>releasing to shooters before we shoot our mouths off?, the information
>might surprise you

At last a voice of reason.
http://www.premier.nsw.gov.au/sites/default/files/120530-GFACA.pdf
This already takes place in National parks in Victoria, culling feral animals.
There are over 1 000 000 licensed shooters in Australia, hardly a minority like say, members of the
Green party.

bobic
19/02/2013
10:09:51 PM
After seeing the list I'm even more concerned to see Morton NP there as it's where I often hike with my kids. If anyone's hiked in Kosi they'll know there are people everywhere. Why stop the hunting around the ski fields if it's 'safe' for the rest of the park?
technogeekery
20/02/2013
8:27:32 AM
Hey Fizz - I believe that Australia's population is about 22.6m people, of whom about 750k are licensed shooters, making them a small minority of people.

Not sure why you raise the Green party, it seems that the desire not to have amateurs with guns in National Parks might cross a few political / ideological lines.
lacto
20/02/2013
8:58:49 AM
On 20/02/2013 technogeekery wrote:
>Hey Fizz - I believe that Australia's population is about 22.6m people,
>of whom about 750k are licensed shooters, making them a small minority
>of people.
the figures dont lie but liars can figure exclude the age extremes and factor in the male female and 750 is quite a decent % when you consider that elections that decide government are usually settled with a smaller % than this. Governments will not spend the money to fly helishooters , instead they are all reducing allocations towards nation parks let alone the rest of the country for animal /pest control
>Not sure why you raise the Green party, it seems that the desire not to
>have amateurs with guns in National Parks might cross a few political /
>ideological lines

Many years ago I rang foul of Parks when I camped on the rifle rang at Port Campbell in the belief it couldnt be part of the park as no guns allowed !!!! not so it was park
uwhp510
20/02/2013
9:43:57 AM
On 20/02/2013 lacto wrote:
> the figures dont lie but liars can figure exclude the age extremes and
>factor in the male female and 750 is quite a decent %

Ummm.... what does that even mean? Isn't everyone either male or female?

>when you consider
>that elections that decide government are usually settled with a smaller
>% than this.

What? 750,000 is 3.3% of 22.6M. No government has ever been elected after receiving just 3.3% of the vote.

ajfclark
20/02/2013
9:48:58 AM
I think they mean some seats are won and lost by less than 3%. The first bit I have NFI.

White Trash
20/02/2013
10:41:06 AM
On 19/02/2013 bobic wrote:
>After seeing the list I'm even more concerned to see Morton NP there as
>it's where I often hike with my kids. If anyone's hiked in Kosi they'll
>know there are people everywhere. Why stop the hunting around the ski fields
>if it's 'safe' for the rest of the park?

you really hike amongst the unexplode ordinance in morton np with your kids?

the pollies prob dont want to be woken early by the sound of gunfire when on hols. dont know that the hunting dogs will stop barking if they spot a deer or pig tho.
Fizz
20/02/2013
10:45:18 AM
On 20/02/2013 technogeekery wrote:

>it seems that the desire not to
>have amateurs with guns in National Parks might cross a few political /
>ideological lines.

What part of, this has been happening in Victorian National Parks for years, do you not understand?

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