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Women don't / can't boulder as hard as men.


DaCrux

9-Feb-2012
2:19:35 PM

There are obvious anatomical differences between men and women. The strongest woman will never be able to lift as much weight as the strongest man, but there are plenty of women who can lift more weight than most men.
I think climbing is actually a silly example because it’s not just about strength, but also skill and technique. There are plenty of climbs that were first freed by women – look at Passport to Insanity or The Nose. Women can (and do) climb as hard as men – look at Beth Rodden or Josune Bereziartu. Josune’s climbed 9a/9a+, Chris Sharma’s climbed 9b – that is not a 10% difference. There are far more professional male climbers than female climbers – probably due to social pressures – so really, when you take that into consideration, it is possible that women could actually be better climbers than men, if more of them climbed. Also, unlike men – women don’t like to get into those “my c--k is bigger than yours” or “let’s see who can piss further” arguments - they usually go climbing because it's fun.


Miguel75

9-Feb-2012
4:02:24 PM

On 9/02/2012 DaCrux wrote:
>...Also, unlike men – women don’t like to get into those “my c--k is bigger than yours” or “let’s see >who can piss further” arguments...

I reckon boys can wee further but girls have better aim!

One Day Hero

9-Feb-2012
4:42:18 PM

On 9/02/2012 DaCrux wrote:
>There are obvious anatomical differences between men and women. The strongest
>woman will never be able to lift as much weight as the strongest man, but
>there are plenty of women who can lift more weight than most men.

Yes......but the 90th percentile blokes can lift more than the 90th percentile women, and the 80th percentile blokes can lift more than the 80th percentile women.........right on down the chart

This situation can be summed up very easily as; Men are stronger than women

simple


hangdog

9-Feb-2012
5:05:38 PM

.
>
>I reckon boys can wee further but girls have better aim!

I bet they cant write their name in the snow. Unless they are named whoosh.
So i guess thats another one we are better at ;)


Miguel75

9-Feb-2012
5:11:24 PM

On 9/02/2012 hangdog wrote:
>I bet they cant write their name in the snow. Unless they are named whoosh.
>
>So i guess thats another one we are better at ;)

Game, set & match! BOOYAH!

tskinner

9-Feb-2012
6:46:20 PM

On 9/02/2012 Miguel75 wrote:
>On 9/02/2012 hangdog wrote:
>>I bet they cant write their name in the snow. Unless they are named whoosh.
>>
>>So i guess thats another one we are better at ;)
>
>Game, set & match! BOOYAH!

shows how little you know :) The whoosh is generally because we want to be done as quickly as possible - ie better things to do with our time. if you want to talk about comtrol.....

Wendy

9-Feb-2012
7:13:55 PM

On 9/02/2012 One Day Hero wrote:
>On 9/02/2012 Wendy wrote:
>>>
>>
>>We aren't talking height and weight, you donkey! At what point did I
>>suggest that certain formats of certain activities (in many of those
>cases,
>>randomly constructed formats - and why is high jump an olympic sport
>and
>>not limbo??? It's all a matter of which side of the stick you decided
>to
>>travel on) didn't suit particular heights and weights? I'm talking about
>>maximising the capacity to use your body, whatever unfortunate arrangement
>>of genes you were given.
>
>I was using height and weight as way to gently break down the barriers
>which the nurture-cult has constructed for you.......and its working great!
>You've already agreed that tall people are better at basketball and high
>jump. And that men are taller than women. Now, time to really take a big
>step; men are better at high jump and basketball than women are.........and
>always will be. Its not due to role models or social pressures, its because
>they're taller and are competing in an activity which favours the tall.
>Nature!

Meh - i'm not talking about individuals or even individual sports (although I'm sure I can construct an argument about social interests behind the development of sport with random rules and equipment that favours the historic male physique, that'd waste some more time :)) and I'm not even disagreeing that on average, men are taller and strong than women. Let me break my argument down in to simple, donkey steps.

Currently, yes, men are stronger and taller than women on average.
This difference is less than it has been historically.
The increased opportunities and acceptance of women to be involved in physical activity (and consideration of women being worth feeding precious food resources) are the cause of the decrease in difference.
Physically trained men and women are much closer in abilities than untrained men and women.
This suggests that actually using women's bodies has a dramatic increase in their physical capacity.
The initial difference in untrained men and women suggests that maybe women aren't using their bodies as much as men in the first place.
Countless studies have shown people respond to male and female children differently and from birth, people engage in rougher, more active play and encouragement of physical activity in boys.
A whole bunch of other shit around crappy ideas of femininity, beauty and body image compounds women's lack of involvement in physical activity.
A whole bunch of other studies demonstrate similar processes happening in brain development - ie don't provide stimulation to baby, baby brain doesn't develop.

Hence my conclusion that, nurture is at least partly responsible for the currently observable differences, and if girls were engaged in similar levels of physical activities to boys, the observable differences would be, well, different. How different, I can't tell you, but i will stubbornly refuse to believe that what we see now is plain old nature. It's just not. And similar upbringings and opportunities could only lesson the differences. And this is totally talking in general terms, not about particular individuals participating in particular pursuits! IE, average male and female strength would be closer. And the flow through would mean, elite male and female strength would be closer. I would expect the average one to change a heck of a lot more than the elite one though.

PS I'm sure I can manage a W. It's just not that complicated a party trick, guys.


Miguel75

9-Feb-2012
7:37:12 PM

On 9/02/2012 Wendy wrote:
>...PS I'm sure I can manage a W. It's just not that complicated a party trick, guys.

I'm not talking about initials Wendy, I'm talking full name; first, middle and last!!!;)

In cursive;)


Eduardo Slabofvic

9-Feb-2012
8:29:37 PM

On 9/02/2012 DaCrux wrote:
> Also, unlike men – women don’t like
>to get into those “my c--k is bigger than yours” or “let’s see who can
>piss further” arguments - they usually go climbing because it's fun.

You clearly know even less women than Day One Hero, and clearly have not mat any women climbers.


ajfclark

9-Feb-2012
8:42:51 PM

On 9/02/2012 Miguel75 wrote:
>In cursive;)

Lower case block letters are more difficult.


DaCrux

9-Feb-2012
8:44:05 PM

On 9/02/2012 Eduardo Slabofvic. wrote:
>You clearly know even less women than Day One Hero, and clearly have not
>mat any women climbers.
>
oh yes, clearly, I'll just go back to my knitting now....


shortman

9-Feb-2012
8:45:05 PM

On 9/02/2012 Miguel75 wrote:
>On 9/02/2012 Wendy wrote:
>>...PS I'm sure I can manage a W. It's just not that complicated a party
>trick, guys.
>
>I'm not talking about initials Wendy, I'm talking full name; first, middle
>and last!!!;)
>
>In cursive;)

Your a funny man Mike!

One Day Hero

9-Feb-2012
11:43:30 PM

On 9/02/2012 Miguel75 wrote:
>
>I'm not talking about initials Wendy, I'm talking full name; first, middle
>and last!!!;)
>
>In cursive;)

God you're a chauvinist Miguel! Can't you see that the apparent performance difference between male name-writers and female name-writers is due to upbringing and the way society treats women?

You know, having a multi directional stylus is not the be all and end all, extra hip dexterity can make up for not having a doodle to doodle with........when young males write their name, all their mates laugh and encourage them, but if a young women tries to show off her talents to her friends, she gets branded as a feral skank.......and traditionally unfair allocation of food resources has been detrimental to female pissing accuracy, and blah blah.....couple of generations, blah, equity, blah blah.......narrowing the piss gap......blah blah

One Day Hero

9-Feb-2012
11:57:29 PM

On 9/02/2012 Wendy wrote:

>Let me break my
>argument down in to simple, donkey steps.
>
>Currently, yes, men are stronger and taller than women on average.

Wait a minute............society is to blame for your lack of reach?

>Physically trained men and women are much closer in abilities than untrained
>men and women.

I think this might not be so correct if you adjust for the exponential extra effort required to gain performance as you get closer to the absolute limit of human ability. i.e. diminishing returns

>This suggests that actually using women's bodies has a dramatic increase
>in their physical capacity.

I'm not arguing against this one, I like using women's bodies :)

>The initial difference in untrained men and women suggests that maybe
>women aren't using their bodies as much as men in the first place.

It can equally suggest that men are naturally stronger than women

>A whole bunch of other studies demonstrate similar processes happening
>in brain development - ie don't provide stimulation to baby, baby brain
>doesn't develop.

Oh yeah, using Einstein as an example.....bad idea. Einstein was slammed as a child (he did his math funny, teachers didn't like it). Anyway, he was told he was shit and actively discouraged from intellectual pursuits........just like men have been doing to women with sport, right? So thats why Einstein never got anywhere with his thinking, because of the bad nurturing he received..........
>
> How different, I can't tell you, but i will stubbornly
>refuse to believe that what we see now is plain old nature. It's just
>not.

So here's my trump argument. Black people and sprinting? Why do black folk of west african descent smash whitey in all the sprinting events? Nature or nurture?


ChuckNorris

10-Feb-2012
12:00:08 AM

Wendy, stuff setting up a new poll to replace this one (I get the uneasy feeling I am not being taken seriously) - I'm starting a tote:

Starting odds for Wendy coming back with any sort of credible answer to the most recent slam dunk from Damo (credit though to the amazing assist from Miguel) 1.000000001

Starting odds for Wendy coming back with a retort that is more credible, more funny and does not use the phrase "countless studies have shown" 1,000,000,000


shortman

10-Feb-2012
12:25:05 AM

Damo got it right ages ago.

Fannys and dicks. Its just the way it is. Everywhere in nature the bearer yields. Hence it must be that one shall be stronger.


Miguel75

10-Feb-2012
6:54:00 AM

On 9/02/2012 One Day Hero wrote:
>God you're a chauvinist Miguel!

I prefer to be labeled a fundamentalist; which means I'm immune to logic and rational debate...

Carry on;)

Wendy

10-Feb-2012
7:57:56 AM

On 10/02/2012 Miguel75 wrote:
>On 9/02/2012 One Day Hero wrote:
>>God you're a chauvinist Miguel!
>
>I prefer to be labeled a fundamentalist; which means I'm immune to logic
>and rational debate...
>

I think Damo and I need that excuse too.

And countless studies have shown Damo and I are very good at disagreeing with each other.


Climbau

10-Feb-2012
8:15:46 AM

On 10/02/2012 shortman wrote:
>Fannys and dicks. Its just the way it is. Everywhere in nature the bearer
>yields.
Except wedgetaile eagle - female bigger and stronger, praying mantis - female kills male no matter how good the coitus was, funnel web spider - female bigger and stronger.

*post edited for clarity

Wendy

10-Feb-2012
9:55:05 AM

On 10/02/2012 Climbau wrote:
>On 10/02/2012 shortman wrote:
>>Fannys and dicks. Its just the way it is. Everywhere in nature the bearer
>>yields.
>Except wedgetaile eagle - female bigger and stronger, praying mantis -
>female kills male no matter how good the coitus was, funnel web spider
>- female bigger and stronger.
>
>
Redbacks and black widows. Emus and cassowaries.

Ever read The Third Chimpamzee? Entertaining discussion of body size/strength/willies/monogamy/polygamy/promiscuity across the primates.

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