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General Climbing Discussion

 Page 2 of 3. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 49
Ben Cossey Sends the Wheel of Life
5:35:28 PM
On 7/10/2011 bl@ke wrote:
>Ouch huh? Not to worry. If poor old Simey needs to pick on minors for kicks let it be. Its kinda like a 20 year old stealing candy from a 11 month old. What a nice man!

Poor little Blakey Wakey, goochie, goochie, goo

5:46:39 PM
On 7/10/2011 davidn wrote:
>On 7/10/2011 grangrump wrote:
>>Ozy is now free. Try and keep up davidn.
>You could call Vertigo free too, if someone freed it, but the vast, vast
>majority of climbers would still be doing it on aid, eh? So is it, or
>the Nose, really a free climb just because one person in every 500 does
>it free?
>M9, to the polls!
No poll needed.
Once it has been freed then it is a free climb; however ~> this does not stop clean-aid ascents being a viable option for many; ... which often includes the first free-ascentionists in accessing pre-rehearsal attempts of various pitches!

Where did you hear this vicious rumour of an experienced aider wasting his time aiding a boulder problem ..::- Chris -::.. ?
Heh, heh, heh. ☺
~> Though I can appreciate that some may race for the first aided send/ascent, I wouldn't want to risk my life by having a hook blow out something crucial on an icon climb for others. Heh, heh, heh.

MrsM10 wrote;
>(*No offence Mr M9, we say in a spirit of freindly rivalry, as all is fair amongst bretheren is it not?)

True, and none taken MrsM10. In fact chivalry still exists in some climbing quarters, so you and your Derek please have at it; as my sights are on more adventurous pursuits for the foreseeable future.

5:49:05 PM
Nothing harder than V6 on Ozy.

Half dome is just a V4 highball
6:45:01 PM
On 7/10/2011 simey wrote:
>On 7/10/2011 bl@ke wrote:
>>Ouch huh? Not to worry. If poor old Simey needs to pick on minors for
>kicks let it be. Its kinda like a 20 year old stealing candy from a 11
>month old. What a nice man!
>Poor little Blakey Wakey, goochie, goochie, goo

The chicks dig it when you get your nappie on Simey? Blakey Wakey ay? Original
7:28:33 PM

Hey, well nothing like getting tangled and gouged out in another Chockstone conjecture-fest but I thought considering there is so much chit chat about it I may as well offer my thoughts on this stuff and some reasoning behind the downgrade of the cave, the finer details however might not be of interest to everyone, particularly if you don’t know the cave that well. Also, it seems a shit of a thing that things like grades and…shit me, kneebars(!) should overshadow the sheer fact that such an awesome natural feature, such a rad piece of natural climbing off in the back woods of Victoria even exits, and for little bickering people to squabble over.

Here’s some background…
When Dai came to Australia both halves of the cave had been climbed separately at V14. When he climbed the whole thing he graded it V16 relative to the grades of the individual sections at the time.

I asked him when he was in Australia trying what was to become The Wheel what he thought of the grades of the problems in the cave and if he really thought those things were that hard (at the time I was maxing out on V11 everywhere else but had just climbed Eve Reve, apparently V14). He said no, but that he didn’t want to downgrade them himself. Since then, with more local and international attention those individual problems have seen a consensus downgrade, the two halves have both dropped 2 grades: Under Siege and Cave Rave/Eve Reve, previously V14 now V12. And yet The Wheel remains V16…

V16 represents the highest difficulty yet climbed by humans, even then these few problems are not confirmed. V15 takes the very best climbers a massive amount of effort to climb and yet there are not much more than a handful of confirmed ones in the world. The Wheel doesn’t really have any one move that you couldn’t find on, say, a V7. The hardest moves on it are in my opinion on Sleepy Hollow and yes, you have to bone down for sure because you’ve just climbed from the bottom but they aren’t crazy hard and certainly not in terms of V16 or even V15 hard.

See next post........

7:29:10 PM
Continued from last post.......
Broken down The Wheel Of Life consists of:
Xtreme Cool-V8/9: In terms of The Wheel, a blur of jugs with one iron cross move that’s a bit spicy. You then have a kneebar that, shock horrer, EVERYONE who has climbed The Wheel uses. (This last fact seems to have been omitted in the midst of pontifications by anti-kneebar protagonists in the process of pulling wool). From there you have Sleepy Hollow. Made slightly harder by the fact you’ve done Xtreme Cool but not too much considering the double kneebar that, again with the capitals, EVERYONE uses. At the end of Sleepy Hollow you get a rest on positive flakes before you tuck into Cave Man. From the juggy flakes you can get a knee scuff/bar on a razor dinner plate flake. This is one of the famous, controversial knee bars that Ethan used…a sharp shit flake that gouges the actually bone part of your knee. Certainly not the comfy Nanna’s knee bar at the end of Xtreme Cool that all five ascentionists of The Wheel Of Life have used…Funny how these little details are conveniently left out of the reports of other ascents. Anyway. After you leave the masochism of the criminal kneebar you have Cave Man, again, in terms of having a good shot on the The Wheel, not too tricky. So, up to here you’ve done Xtreme Cool V8/9, to everyones favorite kneebar, into Sleepy Hollow V11. So you have a middle of the road V12. You link that into Cave Man, which goes by pretty quick considering they are juggy holds that you can shoulder roll through. Now you’re at the lip. I would say, to get to the lip realistically would be bottom end V13. Now you just have to send Dead Can’t Dance packing. Can this add 3 grades to make it V16? Unequivocally…No. Dead Can’t Dance adds a grade to what you have climbed up to now. A few set up moves, grit your teeth, fall off a bunch of times getting your feet wrong, fumbling with pumped fingers (all the redpoint blues stuff) and you’re on the finishing jugs. Finish either up the finishing jugs of Eve Reve or direct via Cave Rave (the end makes no difference) and you’ve climbed The Wheel of Life. Now, I don’t want to sound like “Oh, its jugs what are you talking about” and I’m not downgrading it for the sport but, the difficulty of the climbing really just doesn’t justify the lofty grades previously proposed. The moves are just not hard enough. There are jug rests in between every problem (the knee bars, particularly the ones used by Ethan have no baring on the grade whatsoever) and the holds are such that you can literally shake in between every move if you want to.

And so, the knee bars…

I used two kneebars on the thing. The one that I have seen Dai, Chris, Ethan and James use at the end of Xtreme Cool and the sharp razor scuff previously described. The one that Ethan used at the end of Cave Man is the most awkward waste of time considering you have a big hoofer you have to swing off.

The anti-kneebar weirdness going around with regards to the cave is so…weird! To consider the bomber kneebar at the end of Xtreme Cool as kosher and the crap ones further out as not OK…? Funny bunny. I pulled an edge up into a crimp that Dai only used open handed…should I go back and do it his way? I also skipped the rest on Have A Good Flight-25, I’m gonna take 9a for it! To not make use of the natural features or worse, deem them as not allowed; handholds and foot holds, body positions and even knee bars would render one of the best lines the earth has on offer, UTTERLY CONTRIVED! Like I said, the kneebars Ethan used have no bearing on the grade whatsoever and whether the one at the end of Xtreme Cool does or not doesn’t matter because everyone who has climbed The Wheel used it.
7:44:38 PM
Interesting to read about the relative difficulties and thinking behind problems at the top level. No doubt ego plays a major part in climbing grading (no matter what the level). The kneebar discussion is a wank however - routes are graded for the easiest possible sequence (as suited to the masses). If someone chooses to climb something differently, then that simply becomes an interesting sideline relative to their ascent. No one talks about doing Thundercrack by the grade 23 variant - that would be stupid*.

Great work Ben. No one can doubt that to cross that cave from beginning to end is a phenomenal piece of climbing.

* Apart from Nathan Hoette who claims first ascents and new grades for climbing through routes without stopping and resting at the belay ledges inbetween!

7:48:24 PM
Well Said Ben!

Also - props man! Who cares what they all say - that line is an incredible feat regardless of the style!

8:12:20 PM
Agree benjo can't believe anyone is getting hung up about kneebars when the REAL ethical question remains unanswered.....

Did ya chalkbag touch the ground? And if it did does that make it a V14 M0.01?

10:12:16 PM
On 7/10/2011 davidn wrote:

>It's just a bunch of numbers. Bout time someone got bold and climbed
>something and called it V18 - that'd get the gums of the internet debaters

I've climbed V18, but that's another story.

Well done Ben!!
10:29:57 PM
On 7/10/2011 davidn wrote:
>I find it odd Simey leaves off trying to slavishly imitate One-Day-Hero
>to one boulderer then immediately laves another boulderer with extreme
>intensity, however, to the main topic...

That's because one is a climber who boulders occasionally, whilst the other is a boulderer who tries to climb.

Anyway, I'm not trying to put young Blake down. He is enthusiastic and strong and will be tearing hard boulder problems apart before I know it. I've just got to make sure the young whipper-snapper knows his place before it is too late.

PS. Is there a bouldering/climbing equivalent for the word 'grommet' as used in surfing? Because that is what we need for young crankers like Blake. Any suggestions?

11:10:56 PM

11:53:20 PM
Thanks for the in depth 411!

3:32:50 AM
On 7/10/2011 simey wrote:
>PS. Is there a bouldering/climbing equivalent for the word 'grommet' as
>used in surfing? Because that is what we need for young crankers like Blake.
>Any suggestions?


6:36:26 AM
On 7/10/2011 simey wrote:
>PS. Is there a bouldering/climbing equivalent for the word 'grommet' as
>used in surfing?


5:15:58 PM
On 6/10/2011 simey wrote:
>Well at least there would be more climbing in it than the Ozymandias trip

hehe Blake + ropes... it'll happen again... I'm sure of it
7:23:20 AM
Thanks for the break down and the interesting tidbits that the media conveniently left out of other ascents. It perpetually annoys me how the media likes to leave out certain details to portray things a certain way. At least it is just climbing and not Politics...

Anyway, that was a high class move, Ben. Way to stick to your guns and tell the truth. The world needs to embrace folks like you a whole lot more. Personally, I value your opinion and thoughts on this subject BECAUSE of your ability to tell it like it is. Keep up the crushing, you inspire me greatly.
11:41:34 AM
The truth is out there. I want to believe.

E.B.E's are on the loose!

11:50:09 AM
>Thanks for the break down and the interesting tidbits that the media conveniently
>left out of other ascents. It perpetually annoys me how the media likes
>to leave out certain details to portray things a certain way.

You know climbing's come of age when its news sources can be the subject of a conspiracy theory. Actually I heard that Dai's FA was staged in a Hollywood studio.
Dave J
1:03:47 PM
On 7/10/2011 benjo wrote:
>Finish either up the finishing jugs of Eve Reve or direct via Cave Rave
>(the end makes no difference) and you’ve climbed The Wheel of Life.

Hey Ben,

Has anyone ever done the whole thing and finished up the Eve Reve/Wimmelfriedhof finish? I agree it wouldn't change the grade a bit but that always seemed like the nicer ending and obvious excellent finish to probably the most amazing problem the grampians has to offer. I can't honestly ever see myself getting to the lip from the start but if I did I'd like to finish it out that way.

And good job with the tick by the way.

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