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General Climbing Discussion

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Hukkataival, Graham and Dory in the Grampians


china_sam

29/09/2011
2:16:56 PM

Troll alert
On Boulderers, objectivity/subjectivity, no-rest-days & pet-peeeevs

Wheel of Life
( Quote from http://nallehukkataival.tumblr.com/post/8946115095/oz )
> we climbed in the Hollow mountain cave and worked out all the parts to Wheel of Life. That line is crazy long and doesn’t have much to do with bouldering if you ask me...

His defn of Bouldering is /what/!?! I'd like to know what's going on here...

( Quote from http://nallehukkataival.tumblr.com/post/9538586271/oz-projects )
> ...made me realize that it would probably take time to get the whole thing dialed enough to go for the full link....it’s hard to invest all that time into a 70-move link-up.

That quote pisses me off. (Aussie pride?)

Super-hyper-positive sandbagging pisses me off.

sand-bagging, fine.
(tongue in cheek sandbagging see, Zac V's, smitten, "it's all jugs")
being positive, fine.

But if you think somethings easy, don't be all like:
> [X] took me about 10 minutes and didn’t feel too hard, so who knows about the grade,

arrrg! - /you/ know about the grade! - you're a pro, you have an opinion, you've climbed 100's of v+10's...

Maybe my peev is with the writing... they're all nice guys... it's a blog from a climber

("like, dude, we cleaned it & like dude, the holds were & then whoa, projects everywhere - I'm glad I packed extra beanies...")

gfdonc

29/09/2011
5:00:12 PM

On 29/09/2011 pmonks wrote:
>The problem is that boulderers don't need bolts / glue / drill bits etc.
>so there's no way of funding bouldering guides.

Yeah, good point. And I aint seen too many "I Boulder and I Climb" bumper stickers to support the cross-discipline marketeers.

rowan

30/09/2011
9:58:59 AM

On 28/09/2011 nmonteith wrote:

>I imagine many of their easier 'new' problems at Buandik have been done
>before by locals. I know Dave Jones and pals did a heap of stuff there
>in the 90s. Heck, I've even been bouldering there at some stage in the
>past!

Who really cares though. So they may have done a couple of easy problems the same. They had the vision to go find and do new stuff and develop areas. That's awesome.

PDRM

30/09/2011
10:04:56 AM

kieranl

30/09/2011
10:24:00 AM

On 29/09/2011 pmonks wrote:
>The problem is that boulderers don't need bolts / glue / drill bits etc.
>so there's no way of funding bouldering guides.
In theory a boulderer doesn't need anything but their body but there's a heap of consumer stuff associated with it : mats, shoes, chalk bags, clothing, even "bouldering-specific" brushes to replace the toothbrush.
But I agree that printed guides, apart from high-quality select guides, have no chance of making money. But there's nothing stopping boulderers adding content to the online guides (ACA for example). There's no money in it but it does at least give people some clues as to what is out there.


nmonteith

30/09/2011
10:47:31 AM

On 30/09/2011 rowan wrote:
>Who really cares though. So they may have done a couple of easy problems
>the same. They had the vision to go find and do new stuff and develop areas.
>That's awesome.

You do realize that Dave Jones put up a lot of V10+ stuff in the Grampians don't you? Not exactly easy for mere mortals. In the 90s that area was quite well known for its bouldering. I guess what bugged me about their trip report is that they are implying that they have 'discovered' this new area - but the facts are that boulderers have been doing stuff there for 20 years. They seemed to have done zero research - any local would know the area and many of the problems. Just because they are not featured in a glossy guide doesn't mean they haven't been done before.


White Trash

30/09/2011
10:48:56 AM

On 30/09/2011 davidn wrote:
>I think bouldering guides are not particularly prevalent because Australia
>is predominantly a roped trad/sport climbing nation. People would record
>a grade 16 FA with pride, but recording a V0 FA is to most simply not worth
>it since it's just playing around.
>
>*shrug*

nothin wrong with that. you summed it up well.

>
>I agree though, record what's around, even if you don't put a name on
>it. We all know there's no glory to a FA under V10 (imagine if that were
>true on rope!), but recording things is a community service that helps
>others share your fun, if they're so inclined, and bouldering in particular
>is not about epics or adventure which are the main motivators for not recording
>info.

so you want people to record their playing around?
i can see some sandbags coming on.


IdratherbeclimbingM9

30/09/2011
11:36:06 AM

On 30/09/2011 nmonteith wrote:
>I guess what bugged me about their
>trip report is that they are implying that they have 'discovered' this
>new area - but the facts are that boulderers have been doing stuff there
>for 20 years. They seemed to have done zero research - any local would
>know the area and many of the problems. Just because they are not featured
>in a glossy guide doesn't mean they haven't been done before.

So it seems the answer is to at least write them up on ACA or equivalent.
Much better to do that than leave a bolt in it! *
Heh, heh, heh.

(*This thread is funny. It kind of reminds me of animals that 'mark' their territory, and some other animal has come in and pi$$ed on the territory, then later the first animal returns to discover the fact!)

kieranl

30/09/2011
11:53:08 AM

On 30/09/2011 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>(*This thread is funny. It kind of reminds me of animals that 'mark' their
>territory, and some other animal has come in and pi$$ed on the territory,
>then later the first animal returns to discover the fact!)
Which has been going on for at least since climbing started in The Grampians. After the first climbing trip to the Chimney Pots an article was written for some newspaper. This prompted a response from Eric Webb who had done some rudimentary climbing in the area almost a decade earlier. Only the grades and lengths of routes change.


Eduardo Slabovic

30/09/2011
11:56:32 AM

Was the last sentence a EW quote?

Either way that is funny EW or KL quote.

Wendy

30/09/2011
11:58:32 AM

On 30/09/2011 rowan wrote:
>On 28/09/2011 nmonteith wrote:
>
>>I imagine many of their easier 'new' problems at Buandik have been done
>>before by locals. I know Dave Jones and pals did a heap of stuff there
>>in the 90s. Heck, I've even been bouldering there at some stage in the
>>past!
>
>Who really cares though. So they may have done a couple of easy problems
>the same.

Have you seen Dave boulder? The word "easy" is only appropriate to the degree he makes bloody difficult look otherwise.

.


shortman

30/09/2011
12:22:37 PM

On 30/09/2011 davidn wrote:
>Well, I'd argue anything >= V3 is not really playing around anymore (and
>that V8+ is advanced climber status), but there are a number of people
>who like climbing on ropes, who occasionally want a boulder, who wouldn't
>be able to do a V3 or V4 off the rack. So it's nice to have the V0-V2
>climbs recorded, and even the V0--- problems - sometimes they're just fun
>because they felt fun.

Some V3's feel like muckin' around still.

pecheur

30/09/2011
12:54:25 PM

On 30/09/2011 davidn wrote:
>Depends entirely on what/how hard you climb Shortman. And whether you're
>6'11. I'm sure most V8s and most climbs in the twenties felt like mucking
>around to Dave Jones.

Dan's I'm guessing 6'5 and 60 kg so his opinion's a little skewed (just like him, actually he's a lot skewed ;p).

Dave J

30/09/2011
12:59:39 PM

On 30/09/2011 nmonteith wrote:
>On 30/09/2011 rowan wrote:
>>Who really cares though. So they may have done a couple of easy problems
>>the same. They had the vision to go find and do new stuff and develop
>areas.
>>That's awesome.
>
>You do realize that Dave Jones put up a lot of V10+ stuff in the Grampians
>don't you? Not exactly easy for mere mortals. In the 90s that area was
>quite well known for its bouldering. I guess what bugged me about their
>trip report is that they are implying that they have 'discovered' this
>new area - but the facts are that boulderers have been doing stuff there
>for 20 years. They seemed to have done zero research - any local would
>know the area and many of the problems. Just because they are not featured
>in a glossy guide doesn't mean they haven't been done before.

Ive been pretty excited about those guys putting up a bunch of new stuff in the gramps. I imagine that most of the stuff I ever did around there would be in his "there is a fair bit of easier stuff around for people who might be interested in that category"

To be honest it doesn't take a lot of vision to find new bouldering in the grampians. But it does take a fair bit of talent to get up some of the problems it sounds like they've established in the last few weeks. A mix of long standing projects and entirely new stuff.

I find it more disturbing that for the last decade or so a lot of good local climbers go out to the gramps and try and repeat all the stuff that Klem, Tony and co put up on their trip and now those climbers will be heading do to try and repeat the stuff in the new buandik boulders. Wandering around in an unknown area unearthing new problems is loads of fun. Finding some thing you dont know if its even possible or not and then working out a way to climb it. You dont get that when you turn up with a guide and everything is all ticked up and graded. I dont understand why some people need a list of names and numbers before they can get excited about bouldering in some spot.

Actually the biggest problem I see with this article is that we're likely to see a massive influx of yanks here in the next few years coming out to try and repeat all this stuff. But otherwise, Hats off to Nalle and Dave Graham getting out there and digging around and unearthing some great looking problems.

widewetandslippery

30/09/2011
1:04:55 PM

On 30/09/2011 davidn wrote:
>I think bouldering guides are not particularly prevalent because Australia
>is predominantly a roped trad/sport climbing nation. People would record
>a grade 16 FA with pride, but recording a V0 FA is to most simply not worth
>it since it's just playing around.
>
>*shrug*
>
>I agree though, record what's around, even if you don't put a name on
>it. We all know there's no glory to a FA under V10 (imagine if that were
>true on rope!), but recording things is a community service that helps
>others share your fun, if they're so inclined, and bouldering in particular
>is not about epics or adventure which are the main motivators for not recording
>info.

I exclusively climb v0 and grade 16.

I often have as many epics and adventures on a bouldering trip as I do roped climbing. You haven't been on the ghost train at the Grenfell show.


shortman

30/09/2011
1:21:53 PM

On 30/09/2011 pecheur wrote:
>On 30/09/2011 davidn wrote:
>>Depends entirely on what/how hard you climb Shortman. And whether you're
>>6'11. I'm sure most V8s and most climbs in the twenties felt like mucking
>>around to Dave Jones.
>
>Dan's I'm guessing 6'5 and 60 kg so his opinion's a little skewed (just
>like him, actually he's a lot skewed ;p).

Close, but not quite. I remember being 6ft5...those were the days.


wallwombat

30/09/2011
1:46:39 PM

On 30/09/2011 Dave J wrote:
> Wandering around in an unknown area unearthing new problems is loads of fun.

I totally agree. It's probably my favorite part of bouldering.

I've only been to The Grampians a couple of times but it amazes me that more people aren't out there searching for new areas all the time. Most seem happy to just go and repeat established stuff near Stapylton.

f_abe

30/09/2011
2:47:54 PM

As someone who has spent many an enjoyable day deep in the vic ranges climbing boulders that are unlikely to be climbed again in a hurry, I can safely say that the crux of the matter is dragging a pad (sometimes 2 if I'm by myself) through the bush. In fact, that's precicely the reason why my last few bouldering trips have been spent happily ticking the guide up north...
If anyone wants to claim something I've 'done' I really don't give a fark. If I did I would've posted it on youtube. It's just a goddam rock. If anyone wants to write a guide good luck. Even around the Tower, where at least there's a vague track that gets you near the problems, any attempt at detail will be hard.
I reckon that's good. Let there still be room for some exploration. It's not necessarily 'better' than blindly following a guide, but the fact that we still have a choice is pretty special. Where else can you spend days just walking (okay, bush bashing) around climbing chalkless rock?

Dave J

30/09/2011
4:30:21 PM

On 30/09/2011 f_abe wrote:
>As someone who has spent many an enjoyable day deep in the vic ranges climbing
>boulders that are unlikely to be climbed again in a hurry, I can safely
>say that the crux of the matter is dragging a pad (sometimes 2 if I'm by
>myself) through the bush. In fact, that's precicely the reason why my last
>few bouldering trips have been spent happily ticking the guide up north...
>If anyone wants to claim something I've 'done' I really don't give a fark.
>If I did I would've posted it on youtube. It's just a goddam rock. If anyone
>wants to write a guide good luck.

Agreed...The only time Ive ever had pangs of maybe I should have documented that was seeing a few problems Id done in the black range with bolts in them. They were nothing special as bolder problems but maybe a bit documenting might have prevented the bolting of a few fairly worthless routes.

>>You could say exactly the same for routes though, why not just lead (or TR) solo everything and >>never claim FAs?

Yep. That might solve a lot of problems... Generally the good stuff would make its way into the public record via word of mouth and the dross would just fade into oblivion.


ajfclark

26/05/2012
9:10:44 AM

They're back: http://nallehukkataival.tumblr.com/post/23733912504/back-in-oz

There are 47 messages in this topic.