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O.T Carbon Tax v's PV ecomonic? but for who


evanbb

19-Aug-2011
8:12:40 AM

On 19/08/2011 JamesMc wrote:
>On 18/08/2011 evanbb wrote:
>>
>>Nah James, they fixed that loophole.
>
>DId they? How? Pleased to be corrected.
>
>
>JameMc

The schemes are separate now; the Large Renewable Energy Target and the Small REScheme. Domestic permits only count towards the SRES, which means they are not able to be purchased by retailers to cover off their LRET obligations.

This sort of explains it:
http://www.climatechange.gov.au/government/initiatives/~/media/publications/renewable-energy/enhanced-ret-fs-pdf.ashx

This does a better job:
http://ecogeneration.com.au/news/the_lret_and_sres_explained/043472/

It seems to me that retailers need to meet 2 different targets; the LRET (which is essentially the continuing MRET) and the new Small scale technology scheme.

I think the whole scheme is stupid; running two schemes to create an artificial demand for something with marginal benefit is ridiculous, but no one ever seems to ask me what I think.

Wendy

19-Aug-2011
8:21:20 AM

Isn't everything the govt does about climate change for only marginal benefit?


evanbb

19-Aug-2011
9:28:17 AM

On 19/08/2011 Wendy wrote:
>Isn't everything the govt does about climate change for only marginal benefit?

So far, mostly yes. Except the Energy Efficiency Opportunities program, which I'm working on now. It pains me to admit it is one of the three good things Howard did (there was a fourth but I've forgotten it now)
- GST
- EEO
- Gun reform.


rodw

19-Aug-2011
9:46:48 AM

On 19/08/2011 evanbb wrote:

>- GST

You obviously didn't own a small business and became a defacto Tax collector for the ATO without any pay.


evanbb

19-Aug-2011
9:58:23 AM

On 19/08/2011 rodw wrote:
>On 19/08/2011 evanbb wrote:
>
>>- GST
>
>You obviously didn't own a small business and became a defacto Tax collector
>for the ATO without any pay.

Sure, it pissed some business operators off, but it's economically pure for Australia.

Wendy

19-Aug-2011
10:33:35 AM

On 19/08/2011 evanbb wrote:

>
>Sure, it pissed some business operators off, but it's economically pure
>for Australia.

Run it by us how it's economically pure? Isn't it a massive faff of this is in, this isn't nonsense?


rodw

19-Aug-2011
10:41:11 AM

On 19/08/2011 evanbb wrote:

>Sure, it pissed some business operators off, but it's economically pure
>for Australia.

By some I suppose you mean all?....I do not know of one that likes the GST in terms of time it takes to manage and the impost it imposes on them...and know I dont think its as pure as you think....it encourages a black market in the cash economy...while non cash up front businesses get slugged.


Cool Hand Lock

19-Aug-2011
10:49:08 AM

As an electrician. And also working on high polution plants. I have some insight into this.

This was sent to all personel after the anouncement of the carbon tax:
"Due to the Federal governements bla bla bla.... poor returns... bla bla bla.... raise in costs of 100million for carbon... bla bla bla...bad for this industry... bla bla bla..... we are spending 100million on installing clean energy generators to reduce our carbon output. bla..."

Sorry mister big poluter. But this is why we need a carbon tax/price(a rose by any other name).
So that industry like yours who have poluted the air for free for years get their acts together. Even with the "industry threatening increase" they are still investing 100s of millions of dollars on these plants. That's not the type of action a business would be taking if they really thought that this tax was "industry threatening".

And as I like to give my opinion. PV arrays.

It's cheaper to get 20% of the population to install a decentralised power generation system than to build a new power plant and associated upgrades to the distribution system.

Distribution system: Is being neglected on a huge scale. Just wait a few years, you'll be told the price of power will quadruple again to pay for all the network upgrades that everyone is currently neglecting.

Answer to all of this: Install your own solar/wind power on your house/business... lots of it.

And if your don't own a house, no one really cares about you, as you are not a real person.


Eduardo Slabofvic

19-Aug-2011
11:06:19 AM

On 19/08/2011 Cool Hand Lock wrote:
>
>And if your don't own a house, no one really cares about you, as you are
>not a real person.
>
>

Yeah! Tell it like it is. Life is a sh|t sandwich.


evanbb

19-Aug-2011
11:15:20 AM

On 19/08/2011 Wendy wrote:
>Run it by us how it's economically pure? Isn't it a massive faff of this
>is in, this isn't nonsense?

My understanding is that if you spend more money you pay more tax. Poor people only pay a little bit of tax because they don't spend much money. Rich people pay more because they spend a lot. Works even better if (as they have) essentials are out so no one pays tax on fruit, vege etc, but rich people pay 10% on their new boat.

Wendy

19-Aug-2011
11:24:26 AM

On 19/08/2011 evanbb wrote:
>On 19/08/2011 Wendy wrote:
>>Run it by us how it's economically pure? Isn't it a massive faff of
>this
>>is in, this isn't nonsense?
>
>My understanding is that if you spend more money you pay more tax. Poor
>people only pay a little bit of tax because they don't spend much money.
>Rich people pay more because they spend a lot. Works even better if (as
>they have) essentials are out so no one pays tax on fruit, vege etc, but
>rich people pay 10% on their new boat.

That sort of sounds good, except for all the equally essential things that are GST liable, and that the income tax cuts associated with bringing it in were proportionately larger for middle and high income brackets.


Eduardo Slabofvic

19-Aug-2011
12:12:28 PM

On 19/08/2011 evanbb wrote:
>
>Rich people pay more because they spend a lot.

..... on clever lawyers and accountants to ensure that they are minimizing their tax liabilities.


evanbb

19-Aug-2011
2:13:53 PM

And this is why the Democrat Party is no longer a thing.

widewetandslippery

19-Aug-2011
2:18:48 PM

If we progressed towards universal genocide rather than prolonging the human condition we would then pay less tax.

One Day Hero

19-Aug-2011
2:22:36 PM

On 19/08/2011 Cool Hand Lock wrote:
>And as I like to give my opinion. PV arrays.
>
>It's cheaper to get 20% of the population to install a decentralised power
>generation system than to build a new power plant and associated upgrades
>to the distribution system.
>
I reckon this idea goes to shit with grid-connected solar because you're probably not home during the day to use the power you're generating..........so it gets fed into the grid, which requires a grid, which requires grid maintainance........so how are we saving money?

pecheur

19-Aug-2011
2:27:28 PM

On 19/08/2011 Eduardo Slabofvic. wrote:
>On 19/08/2011 evanbb wrote:
>>
>>Rich people pay more because they spend a lot.
>
>..... on clever lawyers and accountants to ensure that they are minimizing
>their tax liabilities.
>
Yes but they always did that. This way at least they pay for the tax costs on things they buy / services they use (including most likely the lawyers and accountants).

GST is great in theory, why should goods be taxed but not services?

Jayford4321

19-Aug-2011
2:34:04 PM

On 19/08/2011 One Day Hero wrote:
>On 19/08/2011 Cool Hand Lock wrote:
>>And as I like to give my opinion. PV arrays.
>>
>>It's cheaper to get 20% of the population to install a decentralised
>power
>>generation system than to build a new power plant and associated upgrades
>>to the distribution system.
>>
>I reckon this idea goes to shit with grid-connected solar because you're
>probably not home during the day to use the power you're generating..........so
>it gets fed into the grid, which requires a grid, which requires grid maintainance........
>o how are we saving money?

Thats easy, automatic pumps that pump water uphill so that it can gravity feed later when you get home, this then drives a pelton wheel, that then feeds the energy into a battery array, that then powers the house whenever you need power ! simple

One Day Hero

19-Aug-2011
2:48:16 PM

On 19/08/2011 jammin wrote:
>
>Thats easy, automatic pumps that pump water uphill so that it can gravity
>feed later when you get home

That does sound simple......so all you need to install on your small suburban block is an array, a pump, 2 massive tanks, a hill!, a turbine, a battery pack, and an inverter...........sweet, what could possibly go wrong?

uwhp510

19-Aug-2011
3:05:31 PM

On 19/08/2011 One Day Hero wrote:
>I reckon this idea goes to shit with grid-connected solar because you're
>probably not home during the day to use the power you're generating..........so
>it gets fed into the grid, which requires a grid, which requires grid maintainance........
>so how are we saving money?

A lot of people are at home during the day, cranking up their air conditioners apparently, which is when the brownouts happen. The required capacity of the grid is determined by peak loads, so if you can reduce the peak loads through decentralised generation (which will work super well on the hot aircon days) then your grid can be crappier/cheaper to maintain (isn't it?). This doesn't seem like a super hard concept... :)

uwhp510

19-Aug-2011
3:19:50 PM

On 19/08/2011 jammin wrote:
>Thats easy, automatic pumps that pump water uphill so that it can gravity
>feed later when you get home, this then drives a pelton wheel, that then
>feeds the energy into a battery array, that then powers the house whenever
>you need power ! simple

Surely this system could be improved by the use of a few more energy conversions.

eg.

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