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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 1 of 10. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 100 | 101 to 120 | 121 to 140 | 141 to 160 | 161 to 180 | 181 to 189
Author
wood fires at Arapiles
Louise Shepherd
3/06/2011
12:34:10 PM
This week the Arapiles Advisory Committee recommended that Parks Victoria reduce wood fuel campfires at Arapiles to 3 months annually: June to August. Previously wood fuel campfires were allowed for 6 months from May to October. The decision was made after 6 months of deliberation, and after hearing a submission from Parks Victoria on biodiversity values on public land. Parks Victoria officers pointed out to the committee that every scientific study cites a direct correlation between fallen wood on the ground with increased biodiversity. In a small park like Arapiles (1000 acres), firewood gathering has an enormous impact on biodiversity - birds, reptiles, invertebrates and flora.
simey
3/06/2011
2:10:01 PM
I am amazed at the amount of dead wood lying on the ground within a very short distance of the campsite. It would appear that the amount of wood being collected in the park is minimal. The current six month ban seems to work fine.

It seems hypocritical for members of the Arapiles Advisory Committe to be burning wood in their wood stoves at home (which might only benefit one or two people living there) when each campfire at the Mount often has a large group of people sitting around it.

harold
3/06/2011
2:14:57 PM
Noooooooooooooo! its still freezing in September, October.

Andrew_M
Online Now
3/06/2011
2:17:10 PM
Bugger. I'd just booked holidays for late Sept specifically so we could have a fire.

shortman
3/06/2011
2:22:12 PM
On 3/06/2011 simey wrote:
>I am amazed at the amount of dead wood lying on the ground within a very
>short distance of the campsite. It would appear that the amount of wood
>being collected in the park is minimal. The current six month ban seems
>to work fine.
>
>It seems hypocritical for members of the Arapiles Advisory Committe to
>be burning wood in their wood stoves at home (which might only benefit
>one or two people living there) when each campfire at the Mount often has
>a large group of people sitting around it.

x 2
>
widewetandslippery
3/06/2011
2:27:15 PM
On 3/06/2011 Louise Shepherd wrote:
In a small park like Arapiles (1000 acres), firewood
>gathering has an enormous impact on biodiversity - birds, reptiles, invertebrates
>and flora.

And thats why professional guiding should be banned.
vonClimb
3/06/2011
2:37:56 PM
Man it so cold in May at night at Araps. Surely there is another alternative than increasing the ban. The number of people who actually buy wood to burn at araps is minimal. Isn't this the root of the problem?

This is all a bloody result of no resources allocated to the park. These days the rangers are pretty well limited to cleaning the toilets. If more resources were allocated then the rangers would have capability to collect camp fees (at the moment no one pays them) and maybe put some of it towards providing wood. Maybe this should be a goal of the "arapiles advisory committee" rather than suggesting new crappy rules.

ajfclark
3/06/2011
3:10:27 PM
On 3/06/2011 vonClimb wrote:
>camp fees (at the moment no one pays them)

Some of us do.
bl@ke
3/06/2011
3:50:38 PM
It was fire weather there in December!
gfdonc
3/06/2011
4:59:08 PM
April was pretty cold too.

On 3/06/2011 Louise Shepherd wrote:
>increased biodiversity. In a small park like Arapiles (1000 acres), firewood
>gathering has an enormous impact on biodiversity - birds, reptiles, invertebrates
>and flora.

Enormous? I find it hard to substantiate that last statement. You're implying firewood collecting has an 'enormous impact' on 1000 acres of habitat. Yet as far as I can tell any firewood collecting would be limited to a few hundred metres from camp, which in any case is severely impacted by foot and vehicle traffic.
crazyjohn
3/06/2011
5:27:54 PM
Thanks Louise for sharing this. I am curious as to the effect of this 'decision'. Is this contestable? If so, can you advise me who I can speak to about this?

I assume that after 6 months of deliberation the committee would have come up with more than the one reason (negative effect on biodiversity) that you gave. However, since it is the only one you mention, I would like to point out an obvious flaw. There may be a direct correlation between firewood gathering and a negative effect on biodiversity. However, there is no direct correlation between campfires and biodiversity. If the problem is firewood collection in the park, ban firewood collecting and enforce the ban. Using the logic to ban all fires because it is assumed people will illegally gather firewood is a cynical and lazy approach to park management. Perhaps the members of the committee who use the park commercially, i.e. for guiding, could reevaluate their own direct impact.

Also I would like to point out that according to the Mt. Arapiles Tooan management plan, the campgrounds fall into Zone 3. The plan notes that in this zone, "recreation is of primary importance". Banning fires for reasons of diversity in the recreation area runs counter to the spirit and letter of the plan.

In addition, I find it strange that within 6 months of giving the green light for full-scale industrial tourism development to go ahead in the park, the current low impact primitive campground users of Arapiles are being further limited in their use.

I would like to contact the committee directly. Please let me know who I can speak with. Thanks!

Superstu
3/06/2011
5:58:33 PM
On 3/06/2011 gfdonc wrote:
>April was pretty cold too.
>
>On 3/06/2011 Louise Shepherd wrote:
>>increased biodiversity. In a small park like Arapiles (1000 acres), firewood
>>gathering has an enormous impact on biodiversity - birds, reptiles, invertebrates
>>and flora.
>
>Enormous? I find it hard to substantiate that last statement. You're
>implying firewood collecting has an 'enormous impact' on 1000 acres of
>habitat. Yet as far as I can tell any firewood collecting would be limited
>to a few hundred metres from camp, which in any case is severely impacted
>by foot and vehicle traffic.


There is a huge amount of wood being collected from the summit road and the road to the northern group and loaded onto roofracks, carboots and ute trays and brought to the campground.

Arapiles is a wonderful island refuge for wildlife that has lost much of its habitat. Its great to see the place recover after the drought. The birdlife is particularly prolific right now, ive never seen so many birds of prey close up in 20 years of climbing there. Fallen wood forms an integral part of the natural ecosystem, providing shelter and home for lots of critters birds and animals. The recommendation from the advisory committee was based on scientific research that shows reducing firewood collection has a significant positive effect on biodiversity. But what I'm reading from the responses so far is everyone is selfishly putting their interest forward and ignoring the science and long term benefit. (Gee, that sounds a bit familiar! !!!)

Miguel75
3/06/2011
6:22:38 PM
I agree with crazyjohn's post. And I really like fires.

What we need is a bit of good old fashioned capitalism. People like fires and there is a need for fire wood. Some enterprising soul could really clean up by pillaging wood from another area and selling it at inflated prices to those, like myself, too lazy to bring their own.

Superstu
3/06/2011
7:32:57 PM
Maybe what we need is a campground host system like in use at buffalo. They diplomatically advise people of the no firewood collection policy and sell firewood and perhaps collect camp fees or whatever. They could also be issued with a hammer to resolve any late night antisocial behaviour issues.
simey
3/06/2011
8:08:31 PM
On 3/06/2011 superstu wrote:
>Arapiles is a wonderful island refuge for wildlife that has lost much
>of its habitat. Its great to see the place recover after the drought. The
>birdlife is particularly prolific right now, ive never seen so many birds
>of prey close up in 20 years of climbing there. Fallen wood forms an integral
>part of the natural ecosystem, providing shelter and home for lots of critters
>birds and animals. The recommendation from the advisory committee was based
>on scientific research that shows reducing firewood collection has a significant
>positive effect on biodiversity. But what I'm reading from the responses
>so far is everyone is selfishly putting their interest forward and ignoring
>the science and long term benefit. (Gee, that sounds a bit familiar! !!!)

Your post seems to indicate just how great the park is looking right now. I also feel that the park looks significantly better now compared to my first visit 25 years ago. Therefore do we have a major environmental problem that needs to be dealt with in such a dramatic way, or do we simply need to encourage responsible fire use and wood collection?

IdratherbeclimbingM9
Online Now
3/06/2011
8:22:39 PM
On 3/06/2011 simey wrote:
>Your post seems to indicate just how great the park is looking right now.
>I also feel that the park looks significantly better now compared to my
>first visit 25 years ago. Therefore do we have a major environmental problem
>that needs to be dealt with in such a dramatic way, or do we simply need
>to encourage responsible fire use and wood collection?
>
+1, though bringing your own firewood, or buying it from commercial supply at site, works for me.

rockfrost
3/06/2011
9:02:35 PM
There probably isnt a case to mount against the fact that fallen timber does have a beneficial impact on an areas biodiversity. Having said that it seems a little knee jerk to simply ban half of the campfire season. Although i rarely have a fire (usually prefer a good Scotch to keep warm) the idea of banning such seems excessive. One would have thought that with all the fallen pines over the last few years there was plenty of timber to go round.
Unfortunately there are those (Northern campsite a week or two ago around midnight) whose idea of preserving the biodiversity was to rip apart the small saplings in the campsite to provide warmth to a late evening guitar/bongo session.
chalkischeap
3/06/2011
9:08:14 PM
The only thing worse than a committe is a sub committee. 6 months deliberation led to this. Jeez after 6 months I would agree to anything to get the hell out.

I'm not familiar with the Arapiles Advisory Group but it sounds like they may one day agree to a ban on climbing - it could easily be shown to be be bad for something.

Officialdom & climbing make poor bedfellows. Active resistance is the only option i.e. act responsibly, ignore stupid rules, fly under the radar and sidestep the big bad rangers.
Karl Bromelow
3/06/2011
9:40:32 PM
I see widespread flouting of regulations regarding collection of firewood in Victorian parks. Encouraging responsible fire use and wood collection is not enough. Everybody gets what a good few (not an insignificant few) deserve. Draconian measures. They are needed and ideally should be policed. If you're cold, put on another pullover. You're not going to die at Arapiles 'cos you got too cold down at the campground, any time of year. Seems many think a campfire is a human right that supersedes the rights of all other species. I wouldn't object to people having fires if wood was brought in or provided from a sustainable source though. Gently brush the ants out of the fire pit first though, eh?

Doug
Online Now
3/06/2011
10:37:45 PM
If more
>resources were allocated then the rangers would have capability to collect
>camp fees (at the moment no one pays them) and maybe put some of it towards
>providing wood.
1. Hmmm. Wood from where?
2. Banning wood fires isn't what is actually proposed, from what I read of Louise's post. Reducing the fire burning season by 50% is what is proposed. Theoretically, that would reduce wood collection within the park by 50%. Seems like a reasonable compromise to me.
3. Going climbing at Mt Arapiles and having wood fires are not inseparable activities.
4. It would be great if people could have fires by bringing in their own wood or buying from park staff or a private enterprise operator. Maybe if more people (like close to 100%, rather than the current tiny minority) who camp at Arapiles did the right thing and paid their camping fees, that would have been considered as a realistic option.

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There are 189 messages in this topic.

 

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