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Bolting in the Warrumbungles

uwhp510

1-Jun-2011
11:25:54 AM

On 1/06/2011 tnd wrote:
>Now we've got three humourless tossers.

Would it have helped if I put in one of these :) ?

ps Kiss my arse :)


tnd

1-Jun-2011
12:19:19 PM

Quod erat demonstrandum. I rest my case.

widewetandslippery

1-Jun-2011
12:27:05 PM

tnd were they jesuits, patricians or what?


tnd

1-Jun-2011
3:15:49 PM

They were just regular priests at my Catholic grammar school where I did compulsory Latin for five years. Some of whom had "regular" priest habits like pushing their way through a crowd of boys waiting for the classroom to open and pressing themselves up against you as much as they could.

Then there were the older boys who were prefects, like the tubby one who ran the Camera Club (well, the official name was "Photographic Society" because that was more grammar-school like), who asked if he could put his hand down my trousers to rearrange my genitals to make them look better.

Aah, sexually repressive religions, can't beat 'em.

Jeez, what are you WWS, my therapist?

Linze

1-Jun-2011
3:27:51 PM

On 31/05/2011 king335 wrote:
>i'd just like to inform all you lovely folk that those hideous steel monstrosities
>that appeared on cornerstone rib direct have since been removed.
>also i'd like to confirm that there are bolts at the first belay of Lieben.
>unfortunatley these rather unpleasant beasts still remain. The removal
>of these rather grotesque fixtures will be carried out sometime over the
>next two months.
>
>please note:
> Any additional bolts added to existing climbs will be removed (Adding
>is somewhat different to replacing)
>Also it is considered bad ethic to rap bolt a new climb in the bungles.
>(yes there is still a small group of people who regulary climb in the bungles
>and are putting up new routes, ground up on gear)
>If you wish to bolt a new line, grow some balls and do it on lead.
>The reason for this is to reduce the likelihood that over bolting will
>occur. Over bolted routes may end up having bolts removed depending on
>what gear is available and the run out taken. (bolts place near natural
>protection or closer then 5m apart will likley be considered overbolted
>unless a ground fall or factor 2 is likley)

yikes! this has put things into perspective, glad this dude isnt patrolling shipley on a sunday... i take it all back sheriff, your policing now seems firm but fair!

>pitons are considered the lesser of two evils. if you place a pin leave
>it behind as removal will damage the rock and others will likely not be
>climbing with a rack of pins and a hammer..

as someone who rarely does anything but clips bolts, i dont really get this??. fixed metal gear seems like fixed metal gear to me.. by all means put fixed gear in the right place, but you may as well use the best technology availiable..? is it a just a nostalgia thing??

grangrump

1-Jun-2011
4:00:07 PM

On 1/06/2011 Linze wrote:
>put fixed gear in the right place, but you may as well use the best technology availiable..? is it a just a nostalgia thing??
Pitons? Nah, they're a good excuse for getting a hammer past the sheriffs, which then allows some "impact cleaning" (heh heh).
And the hammer can be useful for campfire defence.


Eduardo Slabofvic

1-Jun-2011
4:17:03 PM

Pitons go in cracks that are formed by mother nature/Gaia/any one of several gods/Simey/whichever concept of self appointed supreme being you subscribe to. Bolts go in holes that are drilled by human beings. Both are metal, both will need to be replaced at some point. The cumulative impact of replacing pitons can be seen on some old aid routes (no Australian ones spring to mind, but I recall some grit stone routes) where you can finger lock in the piton scars. The cumulative impact of bolting can be seen Thailand, Araps, Nowra (can anyone pick the odd one out?), other places where rebolting is occurring.

Key differences are when replacing a piton, it can (generally) go into the same place where the old one came out. Bolts (generally) do not. Bolt vary in their strength and security, ranging from the Yosemite Aid stud through to the glued in mega 2 ton SWLL stainless monster, where as pitons are completely safe under all conditions and you should feel safe as houses jumping off on to them from great heights all day long.


nmonteith

1-Jun-2011
4:41:53 PM

On 1/06/2011 Eduardo Slabofvic. wrote:
> The cumulative impact of
>replacing pitons can be seen on some old aid routes (no Australian ones
>spring to mind, but I recall some grit stone routes)

Ozymandias is one Aussie route that has large scale piton scarring.


tnd

1-Jun-2011
4:49:03 PM

On 1/06/2011 Linze wrote:
>...is it a just a nostalgia thing??

queen335's profile says age 24. Hardly nostalgia...probably a misguided belief in the stories of old hard men (in their own mind).


Superstu

1-Jun-2011
5:36:49 PM

>(yes there is still a small group of people who regulary climb in the bungles
>and are putting up new routes, ground up on gear)

Could this small group of people start sending in their new routes for the new guide? Plus if there are any more bolts you intend to chop let me know so as to save me having to add then delete stuff.


wallwombat

1-Jun-2011
5:59:18 PM

Only if you pay them or provide them with new chopping gear.


Miguel75

1-Jun-2011
6:10:50 PM

On 1/06/2011 superstu wrote:
>Plus if there are any more bolts you intend to chop let
>me know so as to save me having to add then delete stuff.

I think a happy medium for future guide books would be to have any bolts, on any topo, marked with that silver stuff they use on scratchys. This way, when bolts are chopped you can just scratch them off the page. I'm not sure how you'd go about adding bolts to the guide but I'm sure it'd have to be in accordance with the first printers ethics.


nmonteith

1-Jun-2011
6:20:44 PM

On 1/06/2011 Miguel75 wrote:
>I think a happy medium for future guide books would be to have any bolts,
>on any topo, marked with that silver stuff they use on scratchys.

Classic!

grangrump

1-Jun-2011
6:35:16 PM

On 1/06/2011 Miguel75 wrote:
>I think a happy medium for future guide books would be to have any bolts,on any topo, marked with that silver stuff they use on scratchys. This way, when bolts are chopped you can just scratch them off the page. I'm not sure how you'd go about adding bolts to the guide but I'm sure it'd have to be in accordance with the first printers ethics.
And if the names were printed in silver, climbers could censor the names as they see fit (think of the children!)


IdratherbeclimbingM9

1-Jun-2011
8:54:05 PM

On 1/06/2011 tnd wrote:
>Now we've got three humourless tossers.

~> and with this post tnd racks up his 1,000^th, and achieves a milestone on Chockstone...
Foreezajollygoodposterandallthatsingalongstuff!
☺


IdratherbeclimbingM9

1-Jun-2011
9:32:25 PM

On 1/06/2011 widewetandslippery wrote:
>My 2 cents.
>
>Sling farms beget sling farms and thats a begetting I think nobody likes.
>I've abseiled from the p2 anchor on CR after coming off Lieben and down
>the gully of rib and gully (which i've never climbed but actually looks
>quite good). I left gear as I didn't have a guide book or torch. The amount
>of tat removed indicates to me a more polite fixed anchor in this instance
>was totally warranted. I do not feel I am dumbing down the bungles experience
>by agreeing to this but merely accepting the unfortunate truth that climbing
>there is not the unfettered pioneering experience it feels it should be.
>

You got lost finding Green Glacier and abseiled off the wrong side?
Heh, heh, heh.

On a more serious note, I think you may be missing the point that we are debating here; (at least the one I am!), about what is essentially the 'slippery slope of convenience'.
In my opinion the addition of steel to that route is dumbing down the 'bungles experience.
If you have not recognised the slope I am referring to, then imagine the next debate (coming to a place near you soon!);... It will go something like this;
A. says; "I reckon that pulling ones rope through the descent ring is wearing it out. It should have a twisted shackle on it!"
B. says; "~~You're a humourless tosser mate~~ Why isn't there a decent, descent station, there? Who ever heard of abseiling off just a single bolt. It needs beefing up with a backup bolt!"
C. says; "I want a continuous line of escape bolted belays; because having only one at the second pitch level just means I am risking my neck up higher!!"
etc.blah,blah,etc.

Have a beer for me, and ponder it a bit more. I think that you will see that the 'unfettered pioneering experience' is still alive and well in the 'bungles, it just needs preserving.
☺

Linze

1-Jun-2011
11:58:29 PM

On 1/06/2011 Eduardo Slabofvic. wrote:

>Pitons go in cracks that are formed by mother nature/Gaia/any one of several
>gods/Simey/whichever concept of self appointed supreme being you subscribe
>to. Bolts go in holes that are drilled by human beings.

then, mother nature/Gaia/any one of several gods/Simey 'forms' long 12mm hole, someone places bolt, angry guy from the warrumbungles barks at anyone that tries to removes bolt ...solved.

anyway, i agree with M9, even though i like bolts.

Winston Smith

2-Jun-2011
3:02:14 PM

On 31/05/2011 king335 wrote:
>i'd just like to inform all you lovely folk that those hideous steel monstrosities
>that appeared on cornerstone rib direct have since been removed.
>also i'd like to confirm that there are bolts at the first belay of Lieben.
>unfortunatley these rather unpleasant beasts still remain. The removal
>of these rather grotesque fixtures will be carried out sometime over the
>next two months.
>
>please note:
> Any additional bolts added to existing climbs will be removed (Adding
>is somewhat different to replacing)
>Also it is considered bad ethic to rap bolt a new climb in the bungles.
>(yes there is still a small group of people who regulary climb in the bungles
>and are putting up new routes, ground up on gear)
>If you wish to bolt a new line, grow some balls and do it on lead.
>The reason for this is to reduce the likelihood that over bolting will
>occur. Over bolted routes may end up having bolts removed depending on
>what gear is available and the run out taken. (bolts place near natural
>protection or closer then 5m apart will likley be considered overbolted
>unless a ground fall or factor 2 is likley)
>pitons are considered the lesser of two evils. if you place a pin leave
>it behind as removal will damage the rock and others will likely not be
>climbing with a rack of pins and a hammer..
>If you dont like this, stay in the blue mountains and stop wasting your
>and my time.
>
Andrew, what a performance.

By your unilateral actions you’re claiming the climbing ethical high ground over the likes of Mike Law, Bryden Allen, Kevin Westren and John Croker – all of whom explicitly or implicitly – agreed with adding bolts to Cornerstone Rib and Lieben.

In the case of Kevin and Bryden they were the ones who between them actually put up the routes in question. They have the right to authorise the adding of bolts – and let’s not forget they’re belay stations – to their own routes. (Kevin has added to this thread and from his lack of censure it seems reasonable to conclude that he doesn’t object to the additions).

As for your quip “ If you don’t (sic) like this, stay in the blue mountains and stop wasting your (sic) and my time” maybe you need to climb more trad in the Blueys before, seemingly, dismissing them.


kuu

2-Jun-2011
4:12:38 PM

On 2/06/2011 Winston Smith wrote:
>
(snip)

>(Kevin has added to this thread and from his lack of censure it seems reasonable
>to conclude that he doesn’t object to the additions).

Nowhere have I intended to give the impression that I condone/approve the retro-bolting of the routes discussed in this thread (Lieben & Cornerstone Rib). And it seems to me there would be little or no point in me objecting to this action in respect of Cornerstone Rib as that would likely give rise to comments such as "the FA doesn't own the rock/route" and "why should we be beholden to the past, climbing should move forward" et cetera.

Winston Smith

2-Jun-2011
4:41:53 PM

Thanks Kevin for clarifying that.

There are 168 messages in this topic.