General Climbing Discussion

Author	Bolting at Piddo (+ easy sport climbs)
maxdacat 11-May-2011 1:58:31 PM	On 11/05/2011 dave h. wrote: >>I don't mind the occasional good additional ring-bolted route. (There's >that excellent ~21 with about 3 U bolts/Rings around the Flake Crack area >- very happy for that to be there.) is that One Edge? As i recall it used to have carrots so if they have been replaced does this mean the sky hasn't falled in?
nmonteith 11-May-2011 2:00:40 PM	On Edge has had ringbolts for at least a couple of years.
citationx 11-May-2011 2:38:51 PM	On 11/05/2011 maxdacat wrote: >On 11/05/2011 dave h. wrote: >is that One Edge? As i recall it used to have carrots so if they have >been replaced does this mean the sky hasn't falled in? I believe it is. I also believe that mikl was the one who rebolted it. i believe he was also the FFA. regardless of the haze of those memories of mine, i definitely recall him saying "it's probably more scary now because there used to be two carrots at the crux, now it's scarier to get to the one u-bolt" (if you're reading this mikl, feel free to update us on your current thoughts, whether you still think it's true)
widewetandslippery 11-May-2011 2:58:40 PM	Whats being talked about isn't piddo as such its some poxy stuff inder the hornes point lookout. its reguarly crowded with absqueelers and topropers. A few rings and a few easy routes keeping them away from the main area seems like a good idea to me.
Wendy 11-May-2011 3:02:23 PM	I'm always a bit perturbed by the idea that we need more easy sport routes. Maybe I'm a snob, but I don't think we do. The reason bolts were put into things is because they had limited gear options. That tends to happen mostly on harder stuff. There's plenty of easy trad out there still. If you can't climb 18, then either realise you should climb trad or go back to the gym until you can.
rodw 11-May-2011 3:10:47 PM	So says the Araps resident with Araps like rock to shove your crap into....the Bluies "easy" cracks etc are not as solid.....thus the reason we have way more sport up here.
nmonteith 11-May-2011 3:20:51 PM	There is certainly an entire generation of climbers in the NSW 'scene' that don't climb trad at all. And they have no future plans to do so either. The handful of easier sport routes get a lot of traffic in the Bluies - I don't see why a few other routes at this grade shouldn't get established.
tnd 11-May-2011 3:29:44 PM	On 11/05/2011 Wendy wrote: >I'm always a bit perturbed by the idea that we need more easy sport routes. >Maybe I'm a snob, but I don't think we do. The reason bolts were put >into things is because they had limited gear options. That tends to happen >mostly on harder stuff. There's plenty of easy trad out there still. If >you can't climb 18, then either realise you should climb trad or go back >to the gym until you can. Obviously time spent in the wastelands of Natimuk have erased your Blue Mountains memories. Arapiles has easy grade safely protectable trad routes; in the blueys most trad routes under 18 are necky as fcuk. It's the nature of the rock. And as Neil says, there are many people who have never climbed trad and never want to - that's perfectly valid.
simey 11-May-2011 3:39:15 PM	So... a rather average, bolted route has been established in the Blueys. What I want to know is... WHAT'S NEW?!
Superstu 11-May-2011 3:53:55 PM	I can't believe I'm joining in this thread, but anyway.... as someone who spends quite a lot of time on easy trad routes and climbs in the Blueys, I get upset when people cite the mantra "all blueys easy trad routes are death". I'm not a bold climber and after three years of living in Sydney I still haven't exhausted the region for interesting climbs to do.
Wendy 11-May-2011 4:06:02 PM	I did live, climb and guide in the Blueys for 3 years ... there's nothing death about many easy routes at Boyce, York and Piddo. Sure, the options aren't as abundant as Arapiles, but there are plenty of options. I don't care if people never intend to climb trad, they can stick to option 2 - stay in the gym until they can climb 18 or so. It's not that hard to climb 18 and if you intend on sport climbing, you'll have to get better than that to get anything much done anyway. If you don't ever intend to climb that hard - learn trad and ramble up easy things or never leave the gym. If there was an abundance of good, easy stuff that needed bolting to make worthwhile routes, it would have been bolted already. Repeat earlier point about why sport routes don't tend to be grade 8s.
One Day Hero 11-May-2011 4:20:32 PM	On 11/05/2011 nmonteith wrote: >I don't see why a few other routes at this grade shouldn't get established. These routes shouldn't get "established" because the potential for quality, easy sport routes simply isn't there to begin with. That's the problem with being a developer rather than an explorer; instead of going out in search of quality routes which may or may not exist, you see a gap in the 'market' and try to build something which will fill the niche........too bad that the result is a ringbolted pile of crumbling crap. The same retarded thought process has produced the stupid ringbolted abortions just before Van Dieman's Land, and the ongoing debacle of Tianjara. Good intentions and hard work can't transform poxy shit into classic beginner routes!
Superstu 11-May-2011 4:29:15 PM	On 11/05/2011 One Day Hero wrote: >just before Van Dieman's Land, and the ongoing debacle of Tianjara. Good >intentions and hard work can't transform poxy shit into classic beginner >routes! The solution is obvious. Find a nice blank attractive sheer wall, take drill, hardware, glue, cold chisel and hammer, and make a bunch of excellent grade 16 sport climbs. Write guidebook and make $$$ and retire to the south of france.
rodw 11-May-2011 4:31:34 PM	On 11/05/2011 superstu wrote: >The problem now is that these bolt-bred kiddies are demanding that every >route around is sport bolted, regardless of gear placements available, >and it wrecks totally good lines and whole crags even. Keeping this thread on topic are you saying the new bolted climb in question (be it crap or not)... 1. Affects the others climbs around it 2. Can be climbed with trad and would exist without those bolts there? I think your generalising about all bolt bred kiddies wanting everything to be bolted, but then so was I with my previous statement...I meant to say Araps is much better to learn trad on than bluies rock....NSW is more sport friendly and has simply more sport climbers because we have more sport options...VIC is the opposite... And I cant believe it took ODH to post until page two, its a thread with his two fav rant topics....a possible new less than 3 star sport sport route with potential to disagree with Neil.
nmonteith 11-May-2011 4:39:19 PM	On 11/05/2011 One Day Hero wrote: Welcome back ODH! We missed you! >These routes shouldn't get "established" because the potential for quality, >easy sport routes simply isn't there to begin with. Very true - most of the time. Anything easy and good has probably already been done long ago at established crags. >The same retarded thought process has produced the stupid ringbolted abortions >just before Van Dieman's Land, and the ongoing debacle of Tianjara. Those routes (mostly mine) just before VD land get a heap of traffic. I bolted some of them with funding from a uni club who really wanted some easier sport routes in Victoria to teach their members leading. When i was there a few weeks back there was a group of maybe 30 climbers swarming over them all day. So although they might not be three star classics - they certainly are popular. What you get out of climbing isn't what everyone else gets out of climbing. On the same day there would have only been a couple of climbers on Taipan Wall. I think many experienced climbers forgot what it was like to be a bumbly. I've been around long enough to see a lot of the 'elitist' hard climbers grow up. I saw them starting out enjoying easy sport routes, get scared and fall off stuff they would now probably solo. When you start out big long routes on Taipan are just a dream - and the 10m mini route is the reality. >Good >intentions and hard work can't transform poxy shit into classic beginner >routes! But a lot of glue can! :-)
TonyH 11-May-2011 4:43:40 PM	Sure, there are plenty of good classic trad lines in the Blueys. Plenty of desperate ones too! I thought Judas was pretty scary if done a la original, I piked off up The Messiahs Exit after the arete and crack bit. What Piddo really needs is a few more moderate (around the 15 mark) alternatives to ease the traffic jam on Tombstone Wall. The Carthagenian is equally good at the grade but doesn't seem to get done nearly as often. Too trad I guess! The grade 15 arete right of Helen (Bolt Upright) is a contender, it'sa nice route in a good location but it needs a bolt ot two coz it's a desperate lead in it's current natural state. I think Mikl soloed it originally.
Superstu 11-May-2011 4:46:05 PM	On 11/05/2011 rodw wrote: >On 11/05/2011 superstu wrote: >>The problem now is that these bolt-bred kiddies are demanding that every >>route around is sport bolted, regardless of gear placements available, >>and it wrecks totally good lines and whole crags even. > >Keeping this thread on topic are you saying the new bolted climb in question >(be it crap or not)... > >1. Affects the others climbs around it > >2. Can be climbed with trad and would exist without those bolts there? > >I think your generalising about all bolt bred kiddies wanting everything >to be bolted, but then so was with my previous statement...I meant to say >Araps is much better to learn trad on than bluies rock.... I've seen the climb in question and this is a storm in a D cup. It's on crap rock and was obviously by passed during the clean trad days of Piddo. I've kept walking past Yellow Crack or whatever and not been inspired to lead it either, it looks pox too. The whole block would never have been climbed on if it wasn't next to the access track to Piddo central.
Linze 11-May-2011 4:51:47 PM	On 11/05/2011 superstu wrote: >The problem now is that these bolt-bred kiddies are demanding that every >route around is sport bolted, regardless of gear placements available, >and it wrecks totally good lines and whole crags even. probably a fair point for a handfull of lines, but what whole crag in the bluies has been wrecked by being a sport rather than trad crag??... the bluies works for sport climbing...although, a number of flakes have emerged on sport routes over the last few years that might actually hold a fall if you bury gear deep into the chemset 101..
Dr Nick 11-May-2011 5:07:52 PM	On 11/05/2011 superstu wrote: >20 and under classic Blueys trad lines on excellent gear that I've done >recently. (Chops out a bunch of main Blueys climbs for brevity) >TDM >Cactus >Knuckle >Scimitar >Cymbeline >Sizzler >Room To Move >Zoroaster >Mayday >Interstate 31 These ones are all in the Wolgan (mainly Coke Ovens?). While it's similar rock, the extra hour or so from Sydney and the fact you have to walk *up* the hill makes them a fairly different experience to conventional "Blueys". For someone who is just starting in climbing I'd say it's a much bigger commitment to go to the Wolgan, vs taking a couple of hours from a day in the main Blueys. And as a counterpoint, and assuming no one has rebolted them in the years since I last did them, a few climbs which are difficult to protect well other than the crux (i.e. large runouts and/or dodgy gear with potential ground falls from a decent height) Viparete Birds Nest Radios Appear Chastity ** Normally toproped by climbing Faith or Sincerity. Again, I'm going from old memories so could be mistaken. The point is that there are a lot of climbs which are hard to protect for someone near their limit, though someone who is comfortable at the grade will just run it out through "the easy bits". Telling the difference can be very hard, because the "OK crack for gear" can be blind when you get to it, or the break can be super shallow and not take a hex or cam. My experience is that while it's possible to find scary and dangerous climbs at Arapiles, the rock tends to give you a hell of a lot more options for decent gear, so the odds of jumping on a dangerous route are considerably lower. Note that I'm also relying on old guide books here: the newer ones may flag the dodgy ones better. I know one edition I've got puts a skull and crossbones on some of the climbs I've mentioned, but I'm not sure if that idea is still around.
TonyH 11-May-2011 5:10:43 PM	Yep, Viparete is a solid lead at the grade, not one to fall off. Ditto Aunty Jack, even if it is a classic.

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