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Bolting at Piddo (+ easy sport climbs)


ChuckNorris

13-May-2011
10:44:11 PM

Sorry Neil your reasons didn't pass audit.

You're 80% there but unfortunately you are going to have to give up your drill, bolts and glue until you pass audit.

Please return all bolting gear back to HQ.

There will be an exam on 6 June 2011 where you will have the opportunity to earn back your bolting privileges.


nmonteith

13-May-2011
10:49:50 PM

Does a practical exam count for the last 20%? I'll be at the crag tomorrow.

patto

14-May-2011
1:43:21 AM

On 13/05/2011 nmonteith wrote:
>On 13/05/2011 patto wrote:
>>Suffice to say there are bolts all
>>over the bluies, why is there a desire to bolt the best trad crag in
>the
>>entire area?
>
>There is this strange belief that Piddington is a trad cliff. It's not.
>It's a mixed climbing area. There are some stonker trad lines, but also
>plenty of good semi bolted and fully bolted lines. Many of these bolts
>were placed in the first years of the crags development and bolts have
>been placed there every year since then. Some of the most popular climbs
>on the cliff involve bolts.
>

The existence of bolts does not automatically give carte blanche to place more and more bolts. As has been said before bolting ethics is always contravertial. However justifying more bolting by the presence of existing bolting is a self referential argument.

hotgemini

14-May-2011
4:46:25 AM

On 13/05/2011 nmonteith wrote:
>On 13/05/2011 patto wrote:
>>Suffice to say there are bolts all
>>over the bluies, why is there a desire to bolt the best trad crag in
>the
>>entire area?
>
>There is this strange belief that Piddington is a trad cliff. It's not.
>It's a mixed climbing area. There are some stonker trad lines, but also
>plenty of good semi bolted and fully bolted lines. Many of these bolts
>were placed in the first years of the crags development and bolts have
>been placed there every year since then. Some of the most popular climbs
>on the cliff involve bolts.
>

The absence of bolts does not automatically give carte blanche to ban placing any bolts. As has been said before bolting ethics is always contravertial. However justifying no bolting by the absence of existing bolting is a self referential argument

jimfalla

14-May-2011
9:52:59 AM

On 13/05/2011 hipdos wrote:

>It's not an inferior ethic, it's just different.

Yes it is inferior.

Sport climbing is to rock climbing what jet skiing is to open boat cruising.

Inferior.

hipdos

14-May-2011
10:34:51 AM

On 14/05/2011 jimfalla wrote:
>On 13/05/2011 hipdos wrote:
>
>>It's not an inferior ethic, it's just different.
>
>Yes it is inferior.
>
>Sport climbing is to rock climbing what jet skiing is to open boat cruising.
>
>Inferior.

Meh.
I love sport climbing and trad climbing and I'm comfortable with the ethics that are associated with both (Regardless of how poorly defined they are!).
Anyone who degrades one form or another of climbing is a loser! Why bother?

Fish Boy

14-May-2011
10:56:05 AM

The rock is not ours to consume endlessly. If no more climbs were bolted, it would be ok. Many climbers have strong egocentric views of the environment, as if it is our right to change our surrounds to suit ourselves. Try looking at the arguments for and against bolts from a non climbers perspective....

As a group, we are struggling to regulate ourselves, and while the fluidity of our culture is attractive it may also be our undoing.


miguel75

14-May-2011
1:16:25 PM

On 14/05/2011 Fish Boy wrote:
>The rock is not ours to consume endlessly.
One of my bugbears is caked on chalk, i.e. Snatch and Grab at Werribee Gorge. Nice orange rock with crap looking white chalky holds. Can we have a discussion around banning chalk, or least make it so you 'have' to use a corresponding colour to the rock on which you are climbing?

>If no more climbs were bolted, it would be ok.
I imagine those who enjoy clipping bolts would disagree with you.

>Many climbers have strong egocentric views of the environment, as if it is our right to >change our surrounds to suit ourselves.
And many climbers have strong egocentric views on lots of things, as if it is their right to impose these on others.

>Try looking at the arguments for and against bolts from a non climbers perspective....
Do you feel many non-climbers would have an opinion for or against bolts? Unless the person you're speaking with has an interest in the topic I think this statement is irrelevant, much like this question; In a Japanese Buddhist family, shouldn't a second born son have just as much right as the first born son to look after the family Butsudan? Both questions mean nothing to those without an interest in the topic.

>As a group, we are struggling to regulate ourselves, and while the fluidity of our culture is attractive it may also be our undoing.
I've only been part of the Vic climbing 'community' for a few years now and feel it regulates itself pretty well. Sure there will be occasional upsets though the status quo seems to return to equilibrium quickly, in a fairly civil manner.

Some of the reasons I appreciate the VCC are that it's guided by people who have a love of climbing, coupled with a desire to build greater relationships with the authorities whose land contains our playgrounds (thanks Tracey) and create/maintain policies that provide a framework on how to regulate ourselves.


IdratherbeclimbingM9

14-May-2011
6:07:40 PM

On 14/05/2011 miguel75 wrote:
>On 14/05/2011 Fish Boy wrote:
>>The rock is not ours to consume endlessly.
>One of my bugbears is caked on chalk, i.e. Snatch and Grab at Werribee
>Gorge. Nice orange rock with crap looking white chalky holds. Can we have
>a discussion around banning chalk, or least make it so you 'have' to use
>a corresponding colour to the rock on which you are climbing?
>
Are you trying to hijack this thread?

>>If no more climbs were bolted, it would be ok.
>I imagine those who enjoy clipping bolts would disagree with you.
>
... but the tradsters would agree.

>>Many climbers have strong egocentric views of the environment, as if
>it is our right to >change our surrounds to suit ourselves.
>And many climbers have strong egocentric views on lots of things, as if
>it is their right to impose these on others.
>
It is Chockstone, ... an internet Forum is it not?

>>Try looking at the arguments for and against bolts from a non climbers
>perspective....
>Do you feel many non-climbers would have an opinion for or against bolts?
>Unless the person you're speaking with has an interest in the topic I think
>this statement is irrelevant, much like this question; In a Japanese Buddhist
>family, shouldn't a second born son have just as much right as the first
>born son to look after the family Butsudan? Both questions mean nothing
>to those without an interest in the topic.
>
I disagree. What about the daughters? How do you reckon they feel?

>>As a group, we are struggling to regulate ourselves, and while the fluidity
>of our culture is attractive it may also be our undoing.
>I've only been part of the Vic climbing 'community' for a few years now
>and feel it regulates itself pretty well. Sure there will be occasional
>upsets though the status quo seems to return to equilibrium quickly, in
>a fairly civil manner.
>
And that is why hammers are used to settle arguments at Arapiles?
... and Mods are used to keep things civil on Chocky?

>Some of the reasons I appreciate the VCC are that it's guided by people
>who have a love of climbing, coupled with a desire to build greater relationships
>with the authorities whose land contains our playgrounds (thanks Tracey)
>and create/maintain policies that provide a framework on how to regulate
>ourselves.
>
Yes. I agree! ☺

Heh, heh, heh.


Miguel75

14-May-2011
11:59:12 PM

On 14/05/2011 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>On 14/05/2011 miguel75 wrote:
>>On 14/05/2011 Fish Boy wrote:
>>>The rock is not ours to consume endlessly.
>>One of my bugbears is caked on chalk, i.e. Snatch and Grab at Werribee
>>Gorge. Nice orange rock with crap looking white chalky holds. Can we
>have
>>a discussion around banning chalk, or least make it so you 'have' to
>use
>>a corresponding colour to the rock on which you are climbing?
>>
>Are you trying to hijack this thread?

Yes;) this thread has gone on for far too long without interruption;)

>>>If no more climbs were bolted, it would be ok.
>>I imagine those who enjoy clipping bolts would disagree with you.
>>
>... but the tradsters would agree.

I'm trying to be argumentative here M9, stop making sense.

>>>Many climbers have strong egocentric views of the environment, as if
>>it is our right to change our surrounds to suit ourselves.
>>And many climbers have strong egocentric views on lots of things, as
>if
>>it is their right to impose these on others.
>>
>It is Chockstone, ... an internet Forum is it not?

Not today! 'tis my soapbox! About chalk;)
>
>>>Try looking at the arguments for and against bolts from a non climbers
>>perspective....
>>Do you feel many non-climbers would have an opinion for or against bolts?
>>Unless the person you're speaking with has an interest in the topic I
>think
>>this statement is irrelevant, much like this question; In a Japanese
>Buddhist
>>family, shouldn't a second born son have just as much right as the first
>>born son to look after the family Butsudan? Both questions mean nothing
>>to those without an interest in the topic.
>>
>I disagree. What about the daughters? How do you reckon they feel?

Doesn't matter; they have girl germs! I'll concede your point and modify my irrelevant question so that it pertains to an Australian's point of view on the maintenance of the family Bbutsudan.

>>>As a group, we are struggling to regulate ourselves, and while the fluidity
>>of our culture is attractive it may also be our undoing.
>>I've only been part of the Vic climbing 'community' for a few years now
>>and feel it regulates itself pretty well. Sure there will be occasional
>>upsets though the status quo seems to return to equilibrium quickly,
>in
>>a fairly civil manner.
>>
>And that is why hammers are used to settle arguments at Arapiles?
>... and Mods are used to keep things civil on Chocky?
>
Exactly M9; Sometimes no means no, unless it means yes. And sometimes it just means 'hammertime!' I do think the hammer incident was a touch extreme though it was after all one incident. I'm also surprised at how infrequently mods actually do jump in and pull people up. Maybe that's because I'm sensitive...
>
>>Some of the reasons I appreciate the VCC are that it's guided by people
>>who have a love of climbing, coupled with a desire to build greater relationships
>>with the authorities whose land contains our playgrounds (thanks Tracey and team)
>>and create/maintain policies that provide a framework on how to regulate
>>ourselves.
>>
>Yes. I agree! ☺
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Heh, heh, heh.

Wendy

15-May-2011
9:15:19 AM

On 13/05/2011 davidn wrote:
>The real slippery slope is once you start trying to wrangle the english
>language towards your own ends, as wendy would surely agree as she loves
>good spelling and grammar. Conveniencifying?? Why not conveniencification?
>conveniencation? easymakifying?
>
I love making up new words. If no one made up words, we'd all still be grunting at each other. Shakespeare invented a whole stack of words, so I'm in good company.

These bolts are convenient.
This route has been convenienced.
Joe is a crag conveniencer.
Sport climbing is convenienist.
Is climbing being conveniefied?
Some people don't want to take part in the inconvenientism of trad climbing.

Now, as long as we use these a bit, they'll all become an accepted part of the language. I suspect that easymakifying might take off quicker for greater ease of spelling though and my spell check is obviously not keeping up to date enough. So, go forth and spread the new words.


Miguel75

15-May-2011
9:42:37 AM

Wendy, I for one thank you for convenifieing the English language. This easymakification should help non English speakers speak English gooder;-)

Wendy

15-May-2011
9:55:25 AM

Anytime. I can make up words in French and Spanish too. That's what usually happens when I can't think of a word and start improvising. I conveniefy all languages. Sadly, it doesn't easymake any of them. Look, we've got a place for both words in our language, they aren't synonyms.

Only 24996 uses to go and we'll have an accepted word. Do all those quotes count too?


ChuckNorris

15-May-2011
10:45:09 AM

I'm in a quandary as I just found magic mushrooms growing in my front garden and I was planning to climb this afternoon. That doesn't stop the the little buggers winking at me saying "eat me, eat me".

Wendy

15-May-2011
10:59:23 AM

On 15/05/2011 useful wrote:
>I'm in a quandary as I just found magic mushrooms growing in my front
>garden and I was planning to climb this afternoon. That doesn't stop the
>the little buggers winking at me saying "eat me, eat me".

What an inconvenicament.

spicelab

15-May-2011
7:48:40 PM

hipdos

15-May-2011
8:13:40 PM

On 15/05/2011 spicelab wrote:
>On 15/05/2011 useful wrote:
>>I'm in a quandary as I just found magic mushrooms growing in my front
>>garden and I was planning to climb this afternoon. That doesn't stop
>the
>>the little buggers winking at me saying "eat me, eat me".
>
>Why can't you do both?

My thoughts exactly. And take any spares to the crag so everyone can partake.

spicelab

15-May-2011
8:33:32 PM

Back on topic...

Poxy low-grade sport routes (like this one) and the argument that they should exist are a product of our modern culture of entitlement.

"Oh the injustice of having to actually endure hard work in order to gain access to an area of human experience. It's not fair you elitist pricks! It's my right goddammit!".

F8cking pathetic.


ambyeok

16-May-2011
7:52:35 AM

My favourite perversion of the English language is verbing nouns. For instance, when asking if someone will join you for lunch you can say "Are you fooding today?". I don't see why we cant apply the same to adjectives. "I saw this guy easying the rock so I slashed his tires". Goes well with the gerund too, "easying is the work of the devil".


IdratherbeclimbingM9

26-Aug-2016
11:50:14 AM

On 12/05/2011 widewetandslippery wrote:
>I would like to reiterate my point we are talking about a little cliff
>in a nice spot under a lookout that is near to but hardly defines rockclimbing
>at Mt Piddington that is generally used by climbers as a beginners area.
>
>A few bolts there will hopefully keep climbing instructors (who are the
>bane of the recreational climber) and there clients away from a good cliff.

An old thread but a good thread? _{... or at least another tangent to keep AP's interest up in things Chocky-historical??

Btw AP, if you enjoy this one for flavour then there are plenty more like it; ... simey even centered in one with a belay station retro at Araps!

Hmm, Araps... If you want diversification then there's another thread about knuckleheads knuckled (original thread topic but got changed as they got hammered - literally!) in the campsite there, that went for a long time too!}

Anyway, back to topic.
I picked on the ww&s post, to ask him if he still thinks the same way about it.

After seeing the (later controversy) idiotifying (thanks for the inspiration to wordsmith W), bolting that took place at Mt Buffalo - Horn area, by a 'climbing instructor' type, I disagree that it keeps them or their clients away!
;-)

On 13/05/2011 kuu wrote:
>it makes a wistful contrast to the "Bolting
>at Piddo" thread currently attracting lots of traffic and generating a
>bit of heat.
>
>Find it here:
>
>http://www.chockstone.org/Forum/Forum.asp?Action=DisplayTopic&ForumID=1&MessageID=100484&replies=139#NewPost

Hmm.
I noticed that you didn't contribute to that thread kuu.
This surprises me, given the proximity of location and your long and illustrious climbing career.
Now that the heat has dissipated, I'd be interested in your thoughts on the matter...

There are 182 messages in this topic.