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Top rope through anchors (solutions)

another dave

28-Apr-2011
1:46:55 PM

This thread will probably get recycled very quickly like all my other threads but its just an idea.

So everybody's read or started to read the Sheriff of Shipley thread. And from what I understand every single person who actually bolts/rebolts routes would kindly like everybody else not to top rope through the anchors.
So this thread is about finding ways to deter people who A: don't know B: don't care from TRing through fixed gear. (I think the vast majority of people don't know. I was once part of group A)

I saw one solution at Hillwood in Tassie. At the beginning of the guide there is a warning sign saying due to the nature of these anchors lowering off them twists the rope. (everybody hates a twisted rope hence why nobody uses munters because it twists the rope - but who here as tried it to find out). I am not entirely sure that that would have been the case.
Perhaps anchors could be reinstalled so that TRing would twist the rope if no draws are present.

Or a warning in the guide that your rope will wear out significantly faster. Due to rope rubbing on edges.

I'm just chucking ideas out there into the wind.
Any thoughts??????????

widewetandslippery

28-Apr-2011
2:25:33 PM

A non twist shackle will twist your rope like seeing your mother having animal sex would twist your mind.

maxdacat

28-Apr-2011
2:26:06 PM

On 28/04/2011 another dave wrote:
>Perhaps anchors could be reinstalled so that TRing would twist the rope
>if no draws are present.

are you volunteering?

rolsen1

28-Apr-2011
2:26:52 PM

MJ started with the man in the mirror


Eduardo Slabofvic

28-Apr-2011
2:40:14 PM

On 28/04/2011 another dave wrote:
>due to the nature of these anchors lowering
>off them twists the rope.

I was wondering about that too, but just put it down to being a NSW thing where everyone is a homosexual (not that theres anything wrong with that).

I found this a bit frustrating in Yangshuo as well, as its asport climbing area, and it seems that one of the main developers put in "anchors" instead of "lower offs" meaning your rope gets twisted to the sh1thouse if you lower off after threading.

To avoid the twisted rope, the leader would put two longish draws on the anchor bolts and then lower off that. Who ever went last then had to thread the anchor, take off the draws and rap off - too much phaffing for my liking. it's only an issue on single pitch routes, but still, it's just as hard to put in a lower off as an anchor


Miguel75

28-Apr-2011
2:54:29 PM

On 28/04/2011 widewetandslippery wrote:
>A non twist shackle will twist your rope like seeing your mother having
>animal sex would twist your mind.

How do you come up with these sayings? I almost choked to death on my custard tart when I read this!

I reckon everyone should start placing ginormous rings a la Morialta Gorge as lower offs. Those things are freaking HUGE!!!

another dave

28-Apr-2011
3:32:36 PM

> too much phaffing for my liking.
> it's only an issue on single pitch routes, but still, it's just as hard
>to put in a lower off as an anchor

Yeah I agree but I would rather have our friendly neighbourhood rebolters developing new crags or replacing droopy carrots than rebolting shippley every could of years.

Every climber has a guide book of the area maybe the info could be blazened across every 2nd page. Would that reach everybody?


bw

28-Apr-2011
7:20:10 PM

Easily replaceable wear parts. Easy.


freesolo

29-Apr-2011
5:07:15 AM

just how lazy are you people? it takes about 2 extra minutes to rap off an anchor instead of lowering (wearing out) off of the fixed gear on single pitch climbs. be a real climber or replace the gear at your cost.

RNM

29-Apr-2011
8:40:38 AM

On 28/04/2011 bw wrote:
>Easily replaceable wear parts. Easy.

Perfect solution! Just pop a couple of shackles on the anchors when you head out to which ever uber popular crag you visit next.

Straight shackles are 'normal' ones with out a twist, otherwise called a mallion or rapide... very user unfriendly as they usually hang flat against the rock and therefore twist the rope, unless you put two on each anchor.

Twisted shackles have an obvious twist that is designed to have the rope running smoothly without twisting.

Either works.

Head to www.climbinganchors.com.au, and you can order some without even leaving your seat! Nice if the shackle is rated, and remember to take a crescent to tighten them with.

On 29/04/2011 citationx wrote:
>and that's from UNSW, USYD and UTS climbing clubs (and other associates) over a >period of years.....I'd be happy to replace the twisted shackles on my favourite climb...

I think it's great when all the STD, STI, etc etc clubs contribute something to the crags they visit, and this would be a great and lasting thing they could do. Good on you citationx.

citationx

29-Apr-2011
8:47:17 AM

On 29/04/2011 RNM wrote:
>On 28/04/2011 bw wrote:
>I think it's great when all the STD, STI, etc etc clubs contribute something
>to the crags they visit, and this would be a great and lasting thing they
>could do. Good on you citationx.

Don't know whether you're taking the piss or not, but when I was actively part of SURMC we'd make a yearly contribution to the rebolting type fund run by the SRC etc, and once or twice we even noted areas where we "would rather the money was spent" (these often corresponded to areas where we would run learning to climb/lead/trad lead courses).


rodw

29-Apr-2011
9:05:46 AM

Just a word of warning re shackles is they can flip and when you lower off them your rope can undo the thread so maybe whack some lock tight on it...or wire it in place.

I think you only need to put them on routes showing wear...98% of routes dont need em.


bw

29-Apr-2011
9:07:51 AM

On 29/04/2011 RNM wrote:
>On 28/04/2011 bw wrote:
>>Easily replaceable wear parts. Easy.
>
>Perfect solution! Just pop a couple of shackles on the anchors when you
>head out to which ever uber popular crag you visit next.
>
>Straight shackles are 'normal' ones with out a twist, otherwise called
>a mallion or rapide... very user unfriendly as they usually hang flat against
>the rock and therefore twist the rope, unless you put two on each anchor.
>
>Twisted shackles have an obvious twist that is designed to have the rope
>running smoothly without twisting.
>
>Either works.
>
>Head to www.climbinganchors.com.au, and you can order some without even
>leaving your seat! Nice if the shackle is rated, and remember to take
>a crescent to tighten them with.
>

yep, this is where is starts: from tmarsh's ringbolt thread:

"The chain is for lower-offs. The idea is that the ring itself is a permanent installation, with the bottom link being the thing that gets worn. When it gets worn to an unsafe point, you can cut it off with bolt cutters and replace it with a shackle or a mallion. The top link keeps the rope direction parallel to the cliff."

Turns the issue from rebolting to merely replacing a link = far less time/effort/money
*of course we should still do our best to minimise wear as far as practicable, but I always thought lower-offs were for lowering off of.


bw

29-Apr-2011
10:12:48 AM

On 29/04/2011 RNM wrote:
>On 28/04/2011 bw wrote:
>>Easily replaceable wear parts. Easy.
>
>Perfect solution! Just pop a couple of shackles on the anchors when you
>head out to which ever uber popular crag you visit next.
>
>Straight shackles are 'normal' ones with out a twist, otherwise called
>a mallion or rapide... very user unfriendly as they usually hang flat against
>the rock and therefore twist the rope, unless you put two on each anchor.
>
>Twisted shackles have an obvious twist that is designed to have the rope
>running smoothly without twisting.
>
>Either works.
>
>Head to www.climbinganchors.com.au, and you can order some without even
>leaving your seat! Nice if the shackle is rated, and remember to take
>a crescent to tighten them with.

looking on climbinganchors I found these, haven't come across them before:

18 bucks a pop but only 7mm - straight forward though I'd be more inclined to pop on a straight mallion with a ring to even out the wear points more...

best solution?


sliamese

29-Apr-2011
10:54:11 PM

Hillwood was just poor form RE twisted ropes. A lot of bolts ony have just past a turn of thred on them. Definately not a standard to aspire to.

Maybe if all the people reading this forked out the miniscule amout of money required to replace the odd twist shackle there wouldnt be this problem. It is NOT hard to replace a worn shackle.... Its lowering off that does it, if people cared so much they would rap off...

So basically if the average climber put $20 a year into a bolting fund or something similar, i imagine we could all TR to our hearts content and have enough shackles to cope. Its a proble tgat each of us need to help solve.


rodw

30-Apr-2011
8:57:40 AM

On 29/04/2011 sliamese wrote:
>So basically if the average climber put $20 a year into a bolting fund
>or something similar, i imagine we could all TR to our hearts content and
>have enough shackles to cope. Its a proble tgat each of us need to help
>solve.

I seriously dont think its an issue...shit gets fixed by those than want to fix it....rebolting funds are not money poor, more time poor IMHO....those that spend money on bolting do it becuase they want to.......its money spent on a hobby you like to do.

I like to bolt stuff, its part of my climbing hobby...for example.....out new routing last weekend with WW&S we sunk 27 bolts, used a full tube of glue etc all up costing around $90 (not including petrol to get there, beers on the way home etc)....but seriously thast just the cost of my hobby...if I went to the footy, went Mountain bike riding etc costs would come out much the same over time...but to start whinging after I have done all that that everyone needs to put in as well or respect what I have done...comes off as a bit high and mighty.

I do it because I enjoy doing it for myself, its a great way for me to refreesh myself after a week of work.....if people then come along and use the resource I put in in away I didnt envisage so be it...I certainly no going to expect people to pay for a maintance fund.

martym

30-Apr-2011
5:59:45 PM

>On 29/04/2011 sliamese wrote:
>>So basically if the average climber put $20 a year into a bolting fund
>>or something similar, i imagine we could all TR to our hearts content
>On 30/04/2011 rodw wrote:
>I do it because I enjoy doing it for myself, its a great way for me to
>refreesh myself after a week of work.....if people then come along and
>use the resource I put in in away I didnt envisage so be it...I certainly
>no going to expect people to pay for a maintance fund.

At the same time, you wouldn't object to someone giving you $20 to refit the anchors with shackles so that future hoards can enjoy the fruits of your labour in safety?


MrsM10iswhereitsat.

30-Apr-2011
8:51:02 PM

Mr another dave wrote;
>Top rope through anchors (solutions)

The solution is simple dearie.
Just top out the climb instead of lowering off.


JamesMc

1-May-2011
9:12:38 AM

An engineering solution. Shape the anchor ring so that it has a sharp V at the bottom that will pinch the rope and stop it running.

Same effect could be achieved with a U bolt shaped so that the rope would jamb against the rock.

JamesMc


ajfclark

1-May-2011
9:26:20 AM

How do you pull the rope if it doesn't run?

There are 28 messages in this topic.