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 Page 1 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 32
Author
Hidden crags
Blah
23/10/2005
8:17:25 AM
Many good bouldering sites exist in National Park around Sydney, some are being developed clandestinely at present. To share would be great but access issues are often hazy. There is one such area a group of friends and I are looking at ( in fact gointhere today). I have heard of boulderers being kicked out of this particular NP. As a result am hesitant to share, unsure if I should continue development as I do not want to give us all a bad name. If I ask NP for permission I really am risking having it shut down,.. maybe. Maybe they just want to be informed? It's not like we are bashing in bolts and the chalk is washed off easily in this particular area. How do I find out where I stand without killing this and other bouldering locations? Maybe set up a dummy spot nearby, ask NP and see their reactions? Do we have any say in the usage of our NPs? After all MTBs are all through it, their wear and tear is higher than climbing, as are fat tourists dropping wrappers...

rodw
23/10/2005
8:38:34 AM
If you ask NSW Nat Parks they will say no....in saying that bouldering is a grey area and you should be fine, keep impact to a minimum.......unlike in Victoria where NAT parks seem to be a litle more approachable...in NSW they definately are not so don't bother...you have been warned:)
Blah
23/10/2005
11:50:40 AM
Thanks for the heads up R. BTW I seem to have put this post in the wrong section, any way of shifting the disussion to general, rather than feedback?

nmonteith
23/10/2005
8:49:52 PM
On 23/10/2005 Blah wrote:
>Thanks for the heads up R. BTW I seem to have put this post in the wrong
>section, any way of shifting the disussion to general, rather than feedback?

no

Hawkman
23/10/2005
8:59:16 PM
i have approached national parks in NSW about climbing in a particular park before and they said no without question. no room for reasoning with them either. apparently climbers are more at risk then uniformed tourists standing on a cliff edge.

your best bet is to check the plan of management for the park you are heading to. they are avaliable on the NPWS website.

we decided not to develop the area we 'discovered' due to there being a climbing ban in the park. bouldering is a different matter. as rod says a grey area.

steve
climberman
24/10/2005
9:20:37 AM
On 23/10/2005 Blah wrote:
>After all MTBs are all through it,
>their wear and tear is higher than climbing, as are fat tourists dropping
>wrappers...

pointing the finger serves no purpose but to have everyone hated.

No National Park close to Sinny will 'just want to be informed'. Bear in mind that what you are proposing is illegal. No ifs, buts or maybes. NP's close to Sinny are also the heartland of NSW conservation movement, and they don't really like climbers, or MTB's, or really anyone who likes doing stuff other than walking and taking amateur pics.

If you just want to go out bouldering with some mates, well, perhaps just go. But if you want to publicise it and all that gumph, it's a different story.

Are you sure it is NPWS ?

rodw
24/10/2005
9:47:04 AM
Its only illegal if its in the Plan of Management, ie states climbing is banned (most actually says climbing is permitted via permit system...permits they never give out)...if climbing isn't listed as banned, or not even listed at all...its fair game...but that won't stop Nat Parks telling you can't climb there.
Blah
24/10/2005
10:39:20 AM
Just mates is where it's at now, not going to publicise. Yes it is def. National Park. MTB I do as well, just don't understand why NP see one activity I do as acceptable, ( and they do, as I have seen MTBers go into thNP office and ask for trail directions and maps) and another lower impact one as not... not pointing fingers unless I include myself... don't be so quick to read the negative into other's words. ok the fat tourists bit was a little harsh maybe, but ciggie buts and Mars wrappers make the blood boil. In fact the pick-up on the way out theory of bush-use means the area is more litter free now than when we first went there... don't comment unless you act is a good way to go I think. Most climbers I know are of similar mindset, surely this is a help to the conservation movement... education of park use is what they always harp on about, I think as a user group we tend to be more proactive than most do we not? BTW as silly anecdote, found an amateur beehive near said bouldering area, now that can't be too 'legal' either can it.

BundyBear
24/10/2005
11:10:53 AM
Georges River Nat Park in Sydney Suburbia - just gave a us flat NO. The crag was used as a garbage dumb by locals, and NPWS would not even lets us clean up the mess in the area, yet alone climb there.
Blah
24/10/2005
12:02:48 PM
Seems to me NP NSW are in ostrich mode... and we have resigned ourselves to it. Is there any kind of forum with them? After all my taxes are wasted in Iraq AND on a complacent NP system... While I'm riled up... why don't commercial tour groups and guide companies have to PAY for the priviledge of using the NPs to make their money... after all they put more localised strain on the parks than anyone else, they should at least have to contribute to the maintenance of the parks they make a living from. Claustral and the Three Sisters are great examples of this... Don't get me wrong, these types of tourism at least expose people the the outdoors and may increase the punters' likelyhood of caring next time the mining/logging company tries to take out great swathes of bush. BUT why not just up the price a little and help maintain the very park that generates one's income? Maybe a guide company will start the ball rolling by donating to the NP. Be bigger than they are about it... That would be impressive (plus you get to write it off on tax AND grab the 'we're so good' badge, I'd choose that company over another even with the extra expense)

rodw
24/10/2005
12:16:52 PM
You are ranting:)...I think the policy comes from them being understaffed and underfunded and any activity they can stop in the park means less resources used and less work...climbing is a fringe sport, no national body supporting us, so easy to ignore.
Blah
24/10/2005
12:19:42 PM
On 24/10/2005 rodw wrote:
>You are ranting:)...

I know, gotta do it sometime..;) maybe NSW needs a chockstone... Vics seem to manage
Blah
24/10/2005
12:24:25 PM
btw if the guide companies PAID for the priviledge of using parks they'd have a little more money and we'd all be taken a little more seriously. Put into the sport what one takes out? A good example is climbing comps and gyms... not financially viable in the short term, but a good way of supporting the very thing that gives you your income...
climberman
24/10/2005
1:26:17 PM
On 24/10/2005 rodw wrote:
>Its only illegal if its in the Plan of Management, ie states climbing is
>banned (most actually says climbing is permitted via permit system...permits
>they never give out)...if climbing isn't listed as banned, or not even
>listed at all...its fair game...but that won't stop Nat Parks telling you
>can't climb there.

I think it's an offence to have climbing equipment in a National Park unless permitted by the PoM or direct consent of the NPWS - rather than OK unless banned. If you get my meaning. Same as it's illegal to drive a car, unless permnitted to by virtue of holding a valid licence.
climberman
24/10/2005
1:38:48 PM
National Parks and Wildlife Regulation 2002
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

21 Sporting, recreational and other activities

(1) A person must not in a park:
(a) conduct or take part in any sporting activity that forms part of an organised competition or tournament, or
(b) organise, attend or participate in any concert, public meeting, function, demonstration or gathering involving more than 40 persons or such other number of persons as is stated in a plan of management for the park, or stated in a notice erected in the park or given to a park user, whichever is the lesser, or
(c) organise, attend or participate in any group activity involving more than 40 persons, or such other number of persons as is stated in a plan of management for the park, or stated in a notice erected in the park or given to a park user, whichever is the lesser, any manoeuvre whether of a military, naval, aerial nature or otherwise, any course of training or any similar activity, or
(d) engage in any activity or recreational pursuit that involves risking the safety of the person or the safety of other persons or damaging the environment.

Maximum penalty: 30 penalty units.


(2) Without limiting the generality of subclause (1) (d), the activities and recreational pursuits to which that paragraph applies include abseiling, base jumping, bungy jumping, rock climbing, caving, parachuting, white water boating, paragliding, parasailing and hang gliding.
(3) A person does not commit an offence under this clause:
(a) for anything done or omitted to be done with the consent of a park authority and in accordance with any conditions to which the consent is subject, or
(b) if a plan of management for a park makes provision for the undertaking of an activity in the park, the person undertakes the activity in the park in accordance with the plan of management, or
(c) if there is no plan of management for a park, the person undertakes an activity in a park in accordance with a notice erected in the park or given to the person which permits the undertaking of the activity in the park.
(4) Despite subclause (3) (b), a person must not undertake an activity in a park if a notice erected in the park or given to the person prohibits the undertaking of the activity in the park or any part of the park.

Maximum penalty: 30 penalty units.




National Parks and Wildlife Regulation 2002
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

16 Erection of structures

(1) A person must not:
(a) erect, alter, extend or occupy any building in a park, or
(b) install, use or occupy a moveable dwelling in a park, or
(c) construct, operate or use any structure, installation, engineering work, plant, equipment, amusement device, fixture or improvement in a park, or
(d) erect a hoarding or notice, or exhibit any commercial or political advertising matter, sign, bill or poster, in a park.

Maximum penalty: 30 penalty units.


(2) A person does not commit an offence under this clause for anything done or omitted:
(a) with the consent of a park authority and in accordance with any conditions to which the consent is subject, or
(b) if the act or omission occurred in or in relation to a ski resort area in Kosciuszko National Park and was necessary for the carrying out of:
(i) development in accordance with a development consent (within the meaning of the Environmental Planning and Assessment Act 1979), or
(ii) an activity, whether by or pursuant to an approval of a determining authority, if the determining authority has complied with Part 5 of the Environmental Planning and Assessment Act 1979), or
(c) if the act or omission occurred in or in relation to a place in Kosciuszko National Park (other than a ski resort area) and was necessary for the carrying out of development in accordance with a development consent that is taken to have been granted to Snowy Hydro Limited under section 41 (4) of the Snowy Hydro Corporatisation Act 1997.
(3) A person does not commit an offence under subclause (1) (b) if the person camps in a manner that is not prohibited by clause 10.
(4) In this clause, moveable dwelling means any tent or any caravan or other van or other portable device (whether on wheels or not), used for human habitation.

Not that I agreee with it, but there it is.:

IdratherbeclimbingM9
24/10/2005
1:46:56 PM
Thou shalt not play hoppy-scotch;
By Order of Shire Clerk.
(apologies to Leunig ...)

This unworkable law has been around since 2002.
Has anyone ever been pinged for/by it to date?
... if so then what was the penalty?
How do they police it?
Have these activities stopped because of it?

Come to mehico where the air is free ...
..or climb in a group, ... and if pinged then scatter in all directions?
They don't have the resourcing to manage it, but it's there to heavy someone (post event) if they wish??

...blerrie thoughtless beauracracy/red-tape IMO
Blah
24/10/2005
2:02:08 PM
On 24/10/2005 M9iswhereitsat wrote:
>Thou shalt not play hoppy-scotch;
>By Order of Shire Clerk.

Or watch birds, after all the observation of something changes its state and as such is environmental damage!!!! As such if a boulderer falls in the forest and no-one sees them, do they really fall?....cool I've just not fallen off a V9!

What is 30 points worth anyway?


>
>Come to mehico where the air is free ...
>..or climb in a group, ... and if pinged then scatter in all directions?
>They don't have the resourcing to manage it, but it's there to heavy someone
>(post event) if they wish??

Here's a thought, maybe if we all signed waiver forms like at the gym it'd be ok? Litigation is the only logical reason for such stupid laws.
>
>...blerrie thoughtless beauracracy/red-tape IMO

A story:... There once was a guiding company that had a big orange tent, visible for miles around. The NP banned them from using it due to visual pollution... the company argued that other walkers in the bush would see it and be able to walk to it if lost or injured... NP said no, that's our job and insisted they change to colour to green. Thoughts?
climberman
24/10/2005
2:13:18 PM
I think it's to avoid litigation in case of accident - "if you get hurt, it aint our fault as you aren't allowed there anyway".

"Like Sydney Sandstone through the hourglass, these are the days of our lives..."

IdratherbeclimbingM9
24/10/2005
2:21:39 PM
Litigation?
Would have been better to make a one line law saying people are responsible for their actions and no correspondence (litgation) will be entered into!

Apologies to Joni Mitchell
"Don't it always seem to go,
That you don't know what you've got till it's gone,
They paved paradise,
And put up a litigation fence"!
Blah
24/10/2005
2:39:16 PM
On 24/10/2005 M9iswhereitsat wrote:
>Litigation?
>Would have been better to make a one line law saying people are responsible
>for their actions and no correspondence (litgation) will be entered into!
>
>Apologies to Jonie Mitchell
>"Dont' it always seem to go,
>That you don't know what you've got till it's gone,
>They paved paradise,
>And put up a litigation fence"!

Ain't it the truth! Joni was a gem. The pendulum has to swing the other way sooner or later... once they make watching tv illegal for fear of litigation and it affects everyone, even the house-bound masses.

 Page 1 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 32
There are 32 messages in this topic.

 

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